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#1 Mon, Nov30 2009 6:44pm

Arthadan
Traveller
From: Spain
Registered: Fri, Nov6 2009
Posts: 425

Chronopia of the Rings

Hello all,

My restless mind is now playing with the idea of doing Middle-earth army lists for Chronopia (Chronopia is, in my humble opinion, the best ruleset out there for fantasy skirmish). The rulebook is available for free legal download here (yes, this one is in English): Download

So, I wonder if some of you would be interested in such a project.


To mortal fields say farewell,
Middle-earth forsaking!
In Elvenhome a clear bell
in the high tower is shaking.

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#2 Fri, Dec4 2009 9:25am

Arthadan
Traveller
From: Spain
Registered: Fri, Nov6 2009
Posts: 425

Re: Chronopia of the Rings

I see there is not much interest in this. Anyway, I have contacted the author and owner of the copyright of this ruleset and he has given me his permission to use his work for my project (and he will revise personally the army lists I will make to be sure they are well balanced!).

Now I'm deciding which factions I will include and I would like some help from you regarding which units to include and so. I'll post a list soon, so you can give me your opinion.


To mortal fields say farewell,
Middle-earth forsaking!
In Elvenhome a clear bell
in the high tower is shaking.

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#3 Fri, Dec4 2009 11:14am

protozeus
Adventurer
From: A Cave in the Woods
Registered: Fri, Sep19 2008
Posts: 243

Re: Chronopia of the Rings

Oh, well, yes, interest there is, I even downloaded the rulebook, but things are very busy at the moment... roll Please continue with this! smile

Last edited by protozeus (Fri, Dec4 2009 11:15am)


ménin aeíde, theá, beórnou órkeiphágou!

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#4 Mon, Dec7 2009 10:33am

Arthadan
Traveller
From: Spain
Registered: Fri, Nov6 2009
Posts: 425

Re: Chronopia of the Rings

So far I'm gathering all the information I can about weapons and armours in late Thirs Age. Despite Mr. Tubb (and Mr. Jackson) preferences, I've found no evidence of full plate armours such Celeborn's (M399) or full plate protections for arms and legs (such Forlong's - M424 and so). That's something I have ever wondered and the reason why I don't own those miniatures. Is it an artistic license?

Here you are a well-reserched article about this topic, by Joe Piela: article

Last edited by Arthadan (Mon, Dec7 2009 10:33am)


To mortal fields say farewell,
Middle-earth forsaking!
In Elvenhome a clear bell
in the high tower is shaking.

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#5 Wed, Dec9 2009 10:44pm

Barliman
The famous Innkeeper
From: Bree
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 4066

Re: Chronopia of the Rings

Don't forgot, Master Arthadan, that Prince Imrahil, though he is described as being in mail at Minas Tirith, also wore a vambrace on his arm, on which Eowyn's breath was revealed - that must have been of plate armour...


"A worthy man, but his memory is like a lumber-room: thing wanted always buried."

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#6 Wed, Dec9 2009 11:16pm

Arthadan
Traveller
From: Spain
Registered: Fri, Nov6 2009
Posts: 425

Re: Chronopia of the Rings

Thanks for your reply,  Master Barliman! Yes, I know:

And he held the bright-burnished vambrace that was upon his arm before her cold tips, and behold! a little mist was laid on it hardly to be seen.

I have always imagined it like this Anke Eissman picture. I think a chainmail with vambraces does not imply a plate armour (or full plate armour on arms or legs).

By any chance, do you know a more exact quote about plate armours?  In my personal research I have found only chainmails so far.


To mortal fields say farewell,
Middle-earth forsaking!
In Elvenhome a clear bell
in the high tower is shaking.

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#7 Thu, Dec10 2009 12:07am

Barliman
The famous Innkeeper
From: Bree
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 4066

Re: Chronopia of the Rings

I can't view the image you suggest, Master Arthadan (it comes up 'image locked'), but I can't imagine any sort of armour specifically referred to as a vambrace that could be anything but a piece of plate armour. Certainly it doesn't mean that he necessarily wore a complete plate harness - indeed, it doesn't really fit with the culture that seems to have been envisaged for Middle-earth - but JRRT was very specific in his choice of words, so I imagine he meant us to understand that Imrahil wore plate armour on his forearms at least (much as mail-armoured knights did in the early 13th century, when the only plate pieces they generally wore were lathes of plate on the fronts of their legs and arms, along with a helmet and one or more small plates to protect the torso, albeit often concealed under their surcoats; the rest of their armour was all either mail, padded leather and quilted cotton).


"A worthy man, but his memory is like a lumber-room: thing wanted always buried."

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#8 Thu, Dec10 2009 12:52am

Gildor Inglorion
Wandering Elf
From: Montpellier, France
Registered: Fri, Jan25 2008
Posts: 3750
Website

Re: Chronopia of the Rings

the file can't be seen if you don't, at first, log in the first page of the site of Anke Eissman.
You can see it there : http://anke.edoras-art.de
then you choose your language, then "illustration" menu on the left, then LOTR book V , the picture is named "Imrahil tends to his nephew (2003)


"Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill." (Gildor Inglorion, LOTR1)

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#9 Thu, Dec10 2009 7:04am

Arthadan
Traveller
From: Spain
Registered: Fri, Nov6 2009
Posts: 425

Re: Chronopia of the Rings

Thank you, Master Gildor. I was thinking about uploading it here but I wasn't sure if it would be appropiate.

Master Barliman, then we agree. I would like to know why Mr. Tubb uses plate armour for some of his figures then. I guess is an artictic license.


To mortal fields say farewell,
Middle-earth forsaking!
In Elvenhome a clear bell
in the high tower is shaking.

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#10 Thu, Dec10 2009 7:50am

Gildor Inglorion
Wandering Elf
From: Montpellier, France
Registered: Fri, Jan25 2008
Posts: 3750
Website

Re: Chronopia of the Rings

I think it is for Mithril "art" continuity... and also to match -maybe- some rules/texts from MERP that states some people do have plate armor... (and since mithril was linked to MERP originally...)

besides having a "chaimail" has never forbidden anybody to have some "small plate parts"


"Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill." (Gildor Inglorion, LOTR1)

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#11 Thu, Dec10 2009 9:01am

Arthadan
Traveller
From: Spain
Registered: Fri, Nov6 2009
Posts: 425

Re: Chronopia of the Rings

Yes, but articulated armour for knees and elbows is too much modern than simple vambraces (Greek Hoplites already used them). And then, we have miniatures in full plate mail such the latest Celeborn and Galadriel. In my opinion the "Medieval period knight look" does not fit well for Middle-earth and specially for Elves, as it is not true to Professor Tolkien vision.

I'm not against some vambraces, greaves and even some cuirass as they were all developed before  chainmail. But I'm definively against pushing forward the technological level of warfare in Middle-earth just because some flawed MERP author thought it would be cool for roleplayers.

I could go on with some other inexactitudes which really trouble me, such Dúnedain height: Rohirrim should be 'like children' compared with them, as the Dúnedain were really tall people, but there is no actual difference in height with the miniatures. And then, Hobbits were called 'Halflings' because they had half the height of a full-grown Númenórean, so they shouldn't be so small (they're shorter than half the height of a common Man).

Maybe I'm too picky.


To mortal fields say farewell,
Middle-earth forsaking!
In Elvenhome a clear bell
in the high tower is shaking.

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#12 Thu, Dec10 2009 10:20am

Barliman
The famous Innkeeper
From: Bree
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 4066

Re: Chronopia of the Rings

I very much agree, but Pandora's Box was opened so long ago on that score that it's too late to go back now. We just have to accept things as they are, and make do. Certainly some of my LOTR armies include types in more 'advanced' forms of plate armour, but so long as the figures themselves DO look 'cool' I can live with it on the grounds of artistic merit, even if I find the concept contradictory.


"A worthy man, but his memory is like a lumber-room: thing wanted always buried."

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#13 Thu, Dec10 2009 12:27pm

Arthadan
Traveller
From: Spain
Registered: Fri, Nov6 2009
Posts: 425

Re: Chronopia of the Rings

Then you have Fourth Age LotR armies, or maybe Fifth Age. big_smile


To mortal fields say farewell,
Middle-earth forsaking!
In Elvenhome a clear bell
in the high tower is shaking.

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#14 Thu, Dec10 2009 12:58pm

Barliman
The famous Innkeeper
From: Bree
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 4066

Re: Chronopia of the Rings

Not as far as I'm concerned. It's all in the eye of the beholder - so long as they look OK to me, that's all I need to worry about!


"A worthy man, but his memory is like a lumber-room: thing wanted always buried."

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#15 Thu, Dec10 2009 2:30pm

Arthadan
Traveller
From: Spain
Registered: Fri, Nov6 2009
Posts: 425

Re: Chronopia of the Rings

It's a respectable point of view, of course.


To mortal fields say farewell,
Middle-earth forsaking!
In Elvenhome a clear bell
in the high tower is shaking.

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#16 Mon, Dec14 2009 12:39pm

Arthadan
Traveller
From: Spain
Registered: Fri, Nov6 2009
Posts: 425

Re: Chronopia of the Rings

Back on topic. Here you are the Goblin (Orcs of the Misty Mountains) list I have made after my research. Please comment if you think there is something missed. Also, I'd need some suggestions about individuals (a.k.a. 'heroes', but in a generic sense, not book characters such the Great Goblin and so).

Misty Mountains
Size: from Dwarf size to Man size.
Weapons: Scimitars, axes, spears, shields.
Skills: Hate, vengeful, keen smell.

General
-    Warriors (hand weapon and shield)
-    Spearmen
-    Hobgoblins (bigger and stronger, better armour, scimitars, axes and shields).
-    Bowmen (poisoned arrows)
-    Warg pack.
o    Hobgoblin Captain
o    Warg raider
o    Warg pack leader

Goblin’s Gate
-    Great Goblin’s personal guard
-    trackers

Mount Gundabad
-    Hobgoblins Wargs raiders (‘heavy cavalry’) / Boldog’s personal guard
o    Hobgoblin Captain Warg raider

Moria
-    Cavern Troll
-    Drummers
-    Mordor Black Uruks
o    Uruk Captain

Please comment!

Last edited by Arthadan (Mon, Dec14 2009 12:40pm)


To mortal fields say farewell,
Middle-earth forsaking!
In Elvenhome a clear bell
in the high tower is shaking.

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