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Gildor Inglorion · Mon, Mar3 2008 3:40pm

well... vote is over, Gandalf lost... I think I will go back to my corner and fill my database... I am no more good at giving ideas, and anyway, that's not a month for me smile

I have ideas for at least a dozen vignettes, or for 54mm... but no idea for any single figurines so I'll pass my turn... unless I have a revelation.
I begin to think I am collecting figurines that though I enjoy the sculpture and design... have not fit at all my imagination and desires in almost a year (that may be the reason why its been months since I last painted a figurine)

Wish I could spend some money on a project of mine, but 2500 is way too much smile

Gavin · Mon, Mar3 2008 5:34pm

Welcome to my life, master Gildor.

However, I really did want to see a Knight of Arthedain fighting a Hillman Chieftain for my own nefarious purposes.

I am sad to hear that Frumgar hasn't sold. Oddly, I wrote up Frumgar as a player character in the MERP adventure. I still haven't finished it (because I've been busy, because I suck, and because I still need a camera tripod to take pictures of the figures I want to use to illustrate it).
One of the silly conceits of the adventure is to allow players to play Gildor or Anarath or Frumgar as well as nine other non-canon PCs during the last years of the wars between Arthedain and Angmar. The idea is that players are encouraged to buy miniatures (because I am sneaky). Weirdly I was worried that there would not be enough Frumgar models about.

It might be worth asking Mithril to list the Frumgar miniature in their "ebay items" section.

Gavin

Gavin · Mon, Mar3 2008 5:42pm

Anyway, on an entirely mostly-the-same note.

What are people suggesting this month?

I, myself, am tempted to suggest a Black Numenorean mariner/warrior to go with the Corsairs. Said Black Numenorean warrior could also function as one of the PCs in the MERP 2nd Ed corebook.

However, I also like the idea of an Elven sailor from the Grey Havens, as has been suggested - and almost won - on a few occassions.

And I am tempted to vote for whatever Mistress Wendy suggests.

Hmm, decisions and decisions and yes I should be working.

Gavin

Gildor Inglorion · Mon, Mar3 2008 6:00pm

and well sorry to say smile but, like all the former months until now smile I won't cast my vote to any anonymous figurine smile so well if you want my vote it rather has a name hehe, and even better, an existing name from an existing event wink
(As I said in my previous post.... I can't help thinking MS figurines are special and for me special means personnality smile lesser or greater, no matter the importance of the personnality itself providing it is a name from Tolkien smile

Meanwhile, talking about personnalities.... I am still in need of some help on my database sad

Gavin · Mon, Mar3 2008 6:28pm

I would love to help you, but I need some serious reference material and a clear head. So give me a few weeks and I'll try and get you the latter. Then I shall give you a hand! big_smile

hsf62 · Tue, Mar4 2008 10:52am

You are not only paying for the additional 100 minis, you are also paying for the listing on the Mithril site....Nothing is for free in this life!
Yep, not everyone has 2500€ floating around in a shoebox. Join the club!

But what about a new MX anyhow?

A simple calculation.
2500€ divided by 31 (30 minis 1 master) = 80.65€ each mini
Starting from here everyone interested could buy as many shares (mins) as he/she would like to 80.65€ each. By the time all 31 shares are sold we could pay Mithril and start with a new MX previosly decided upon what to produce.
This MX would really be rare and could achieve a nice attention if sold.

What about MX Gandalf flying?

Can you see Gandalf between the wings the hair in the wind.

Who wants to wait for the next voting and still to be unsure if the figure wins?

Last edited by hsf62 (Tue, Mar4 2008 11:36am)

Theobald · Tue, Mar4 2008 1:25pm

Huuoooommmm ... I think the problem will be the number of "shares" ... huomm ... and the difficulty to have all "shareholders" agreeing to a certain idea/figure .... hom. I also think that some more minor problems will also be involved in such a project ... huom.

hsf62 · Tue, Mar4 2008 2:14pm

I everyone choining in buys two shares for 162.00€, we only need 14 people. I believe it is easier to find enough people to choin a MX project like this, then selling 200 Frumgars. smile
If you don't try you'll never find out!

Barliman · Tue, Mar4 2008 2:23pm

Without being cynical, good luck with getting that many people to agree on anything!

Gildor Inglorion · Tue, Mar4 2008 2:28pm

I'm not sure I understood well... the 100 public releases + advertisement is included in the 2500€ if not, how much more does it cost.
Your idea of 31 sponsors for 30+1 figurines is ok... providing we have NO MORE than 31 persons around for this project ... that's quite instable...

Anyhow, would it come for a "parallel" MMP voting for MX figurines, with one of us submitting the project and gathering funds to pay Mithril each time... why not, but if it is only for 30 and no more that's not possible

As for parallel voting (and thus a second GF opportunity ) this forum has the Polling functionnalities perfectly operational for such kind of votes, and the forum in which the polling would be hosted can be locked via password... actually quite the same as Mithril official board... with even better possibilities. Still that requires sponsors, not everybody can affor 80 or so € for a figurine... Maybe it could be a three or four month project, with a long voting time.

by the way, I remind all of you that Landpruneir had the idea to resubmit the Moria gate as a MX vignette...as a community idea for all who would accept to participate.

As for gandalf eagle rider... maybe it is wiser to have it resubmitted next vignette month.. maybe not.... I still have this crowing of Elessar I'd like to see realised.

hsf62 · Tue, Mar4 2008 2:53pm

Well, I guess we could extend the amount of minis over the 30 aswell. So to say if we have 40 people interested in choining MX "Gandalf flight" we could have 40 figures + doubles, if someone likes to have two minis done and divide the whole cost through the ammount of minis produced.

hsf62 · Tue, Mar4 2008 3:04pm

By the way, I'm sure you bought 3 small dwarfs for approx 75€ aswell. There where a lot of people around who couldn't afford this eighter and therefor didn't buy them. I can't afford to buy a Porsche. Well, then I don't buy one! Easy!
But what we could do to give more people the oppotunity to choin in with a MX is to promote a MX we decided for for example on the GM board. Just an Idea.

Theobald · Tue, Mar4 2008 7:09pm

Huuuuooooommmmrhuuooommmmmm ... hom ... Master Caster, I still do regard this as a nice dream ... huoommm ... one of the kind that will never come true .... huoommm ... I'm sure about it ... hom.
Many around here know that I was taking part in that "Frumgar-project" ... huoommm ... and please note and believe me that I will never regret having done suchwise ... hom ... not at all ...
.... rhuoommmmm ... but as we (sic!) decided to let do those extra-castings for a dime ... huom.
I nowadays can only say it was our mistake ... rhuoommm ... and that's why some of them are still left being unsold ... .hom ... besides .... gruhooommmmrhuoommm ... there are other things concerning "Frumgar" that still are unveiled ... huommm .. so to say ... hom.
And these are the "minor problems" I was referring to .... hom.
Imagine about thirty people trying to cope with such random calculations ... huoommm, if you don't mind the expression ... hom ... this would turn out to prove that Master Barliman's comment about this was a bit more than cynical ... huoommm ... methinks
well, and then, ... just to be honest ... hom ... rhuommm ... you can imagine why I last year decided to submission a new MX alone .... rhuooommm ... no? ... huoomm ... for once in my life I always wanted to have a Mithril-figure of which I can say that there's part of my work (thoughts) being in it ... rhuoommhuom ... and that's why I decided for that Imrahil-MX ... letting him be my concern alone ... rhuoommm ... on the other hand there of course also was the idea back in my mind to keep Mithril going by giving another "teaser" additionally to those hundreds of figures ... hom ... just to ... huoommm .... alas ... keep it going .... so to say ...
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm (holding breath)
huom ... with this I did not want to criticize anything about the "old Frumgar-team".
rhuooommm ... I tried to explain why I think an MX should be something special ... hom
(not only because of the money to be spent for that)
...... huoommmm .... and in the end I would like to ask you about forgiveness for these Entish thoughts that suddenly came to my mind .... huooommm ...

May I have a bowl of that costly water, Master Barliman, please .... hom ...

ddaines · Tue, Mar4 2008 7:50pm

A thought roll I haven't yet painted any Mithril eagles although they are all waiting, but recently there have been posts about converting oarsmen for the Corsairs, what about converting one of the Eagles and a Gandalf, and........................................... Master Caster?

Not a true Mithril, but wink

Theobald · Tue, Mar4 2008 8:32pm

Huoommm ... why not have converted oarsmen rowing the eagle with some Gandalf being carried as once Bilbo was (M140) ... rguoomm ... not necessarily a dwarf has to be put in between the eagle holding that Hobbit ... rhuoommm ...hom ... any orc might do ...
Sorry I'm just kidding .... rhuoommm ...

Barliman · Tue, Mar4 2008 9:33pm

I think that you have entirely the right approach to the MX business, Master Tree. It would be hard enough finding three people who could agree on everything they wanted in a figure, let alone 15 or even (gasp) 40. Going it alone is the best solution by far - at least you get exactly what you want that way. And it explains why you can never afford to pay your bar tab. So have this one on me...after all, it's mostly water.

Gildor Inglorion · Tue, Mar4 2008 11:50pm

that's the problem... MS is a community choice for the concept and theme, and design is done by Chris Tubb himself.

MX the design is shared between Chris tubb and the sponsor. Chris is paid to do and satisfy all wishes submitted , be it to the smallest details... When the imagination and idea comes from one source that is possible, but compiling more than 2 or 3 peoples into a single representation of an idea (even if more than 10 of them agree on the idea itself) is nearly impossible to achieve...
Still I am frigid towards MX because, IF someone (thanksfully so far it has not been the case) only did cast 30 figurines... for himself, without 100 others, then these figurines would be nearly impossible to get, and due to the price the sponsor has paid I am quite sure that these would sold on ebay for at least as much as an early Xmas figurine... and I am against "artificial rarity".. rarity must be something deserved.. not created artificially well it can, but not SUCH a degree of rarity...
I would never submit a 30 casting idea... because I would not want others to do so and not have a chance to get my hands on one of these... Since indeed, I would do anything to get one for my collection...

I hope you see my point, it's a bit late and my spirit (and english) may be a bit blurry

ddaines · Wed, Mar5 2008 12:33am

Do we have an exact release date for Imrahil? I'm away for the next two weeks from saturday and would hate to miss the opportunity yikes

I know Mithril's announced release dates and actual release dates vary, but do you have an idea perhaps Master Ent?

Gavin · Wed, Mar5 2008 12:44am

I suspect, Master Gildor, that many of the MX issues could be resolved with communication between "shareholders." Communication, married to a strong concept, would keep things on a pretty even keel.

The problem comes with ambiguity.

If, say, a group of "shareholders" wanted an MX of Gandalf escaping on Gwaihir, then you could jointly decide on:

- An action shot. The eagle's wings are out, soaring, and Gandalf is holding on tight.
- A bigger eagle than before. Mithril's great eagles are a bit small, right now.
- Gandalf is looking forward.

The rest of the details would be self explanatory, and wouldn't be grounds for much disagreement.

However, if you wanted something like:

Ar-Pharzon The Golden

You would be automatically courting disagreements, if there were shareholders.

- What is the king wearing? "Scale mail?" one of those weird Numenorean helmets? Or perhaps the winged crown?
- Is the king receiving Sauron's submission? Or is he raising his sword inspiring his troops before the fleet leaves for the Undying Lands. Or is he urging his troops on as they conquer Umbar
- Is the king young, or older?

And so on and so forth.

So, I'm thinking with the right concept, defined in advance, you could have a shareholder model for the MX project. With the wrong project... you are having problems.

Gavin

hsf62 · Wed, Mar5 2008 5:48am

Hey, I really started something. big_smile
Thank you Gavin for your support. I'm sure a MX with 30 shareholders can be organised. I didn't say it is a piece of cake. On the other hand, is it really worth the hassle?

Gildor you say "rarity must be something deserved.. not created artificially well it can, but not SUCH a degree of rarity..." What about the unreleased warbands with aprox 40 test castings?
Or, a lot rarer unreleased MS Galadriel with as far as I know 15 test castings???? Did these figures earn their rarity?

Everything is theorie until someone gives it a try;)

Maybe Master Ddaines way is the best. I supply the eagle. Who supplies Gandalf?

ESTEL · Wed, Mar5 2008 10:17am

Gildor Inglorion wrote:
well that's all too true barliman... Fact is that people submit - what should otherwise be considered common - figurines because the regulard range is too... slow to be released and satisfy people. So if people have some figurines they'd like to see released, they use the GF system to accelerate the process of release... but in the end, that's not really satisfying for anybody... Either the diorama maker who needs variants, the army make who'd require several types of a same "theme", and the collector, who will anyway buy a figurine for his collection to keep it complete though he does not like it.

Let's look at the lossoth example : some people would gladly like a full range of lossoth, the same way some wanted a range of corsairs. It happens that the corsairs were soon to be released (which was unknown at the time of the vote) and so, it could have been a regular release. So people tend to suggest and vote for things they'd like to see released, no matter if it is special or not....
Maybe We should suggest to Mithril that future M series be announced quite some time before (providing TE accepts it) and that would help us choose wether or not to suggest something in the GF system...
Or maybe extend GF power to vote which future release we would like to see released, among a list of choices Mithril would give us. That would be a good idea.
I doubt there are any GW spies around here that would inform GW about what Mithril plans to do in order to counter Mithril and create problems with TE licensing... that would really be ... childish and unproductive , as for sure all of you will agree.
Maybe this "vote" could only be accessed via the GF boards so that it is not public and require some seriousness as well as not to risk a leak towards GW.

Dear Gildor,

I like the idea very much of GF-voting what the next "normal" M-release will be roll . This idea should be presented Lars. This could help people (like you and sometimes myself sad )not to be frustrated about how the GF works at the moment. Me too thinks, the GF would be better a place for characterfull suggestions, but all characters I suggested never ever got much support. So I was surprised, that people voted for Hillmen/Arnor knight scene and not for my beloved Earnur's confrontation of the witch King or Rumil and Orophin.
I surely would like to see more regular M be produced, which would help Mithril getting more customers buying their figures- not many want to finish a complete Mithril collection and/or buy expensive (even rare) figures.

Another solution: normal M- range contains more typical figures e.g. warriors or some civilians and the GF- thing is changed to coting for which character figure is produced for the M-range, like the Corsair admiral for the corsairs or Imrahil for the D.A. knights ( I don't know if this would be a good idea).

Concerning GW spies: Me thinks, that the problem is solved by the fact that TE has to prove all the releases Mithril plans an so no more debate will be there tongue .

NAMARIE
estel

P.S.: Do not be frustrated abotu the newest future release, I think Chris will design a masterpiece of Rhudaur's or Arnor's last stand:)

Last edited by ESTEL (Wed, Mar5 2008 10:21am)

Gildor Inglorion · Wed, Mar5 2008 10:35am

I was waiting for someone to talk about the MW wink and I had prepared an answer smile

the MW are prototypes and when Chris decided 'on his own behalf' to sell them, he chose an arbitrary price, but they had never been meant to be releases, these were test casting... A prototype always earn its rarity from the simple fact it is... a prototype...
Releasing officially a figurine with the desire to have only 30 of them... is completly different... Though in the end the rarity is the same for the collector, the cause of the rarity is totally different. For the MW, it could not be helped or foreseen as these were prototypes, as for MX, once the casting number has been decided, one can assume and perfectly know the average price/rarity this figurine could reach almost immediatly due to collectors craving for them. That's what I call artificial.
In order to keep from this way of thinking, Chris Tubb decided to make a "buy it now" system with fixed price, in order to be fair towards everybody... I doubt this fairness could be shared in a bigger scale, when it comes to community projects. Some would want to have their investment back by doing auctions on ebay with scaling prices, one or two figurines at a time.. others would want to be fair and make a static price until there are no more to be sold...
But it is a community money that is shared... and what should we do then? Unless we, ourselves, fix rules we must all agree upon before launching a project, about how sharing the sponsoring, and sharing the benefits, and methods of saling would be done, once and for all...

In my database I have separated the "rarity" and the "availability" these are two criteria which can be linked or not.
The "unfindable" rarity for a "prototype" availabilty, is justified. The "extremely rare" for a "discontinued" (such as M16) can be justified but I have never seen a single "discontinued" figurine (even the M16) reach an "unfindable" rarity.
I have put "availabilities" tagged for "Limited" "Promotional/Gift", "Prototypes" and together with the rarity tag, it can explain the average price which in the end, can be acceptable. MW are prototypes, they are now unfindable, and the price for them... is no more what it used to be when Chris was selling them but has reached HIGHER prices due to people like Dominique Beuret.... (drizztdourden) . Same for the MX when they were sold out. but in term of availability, MX are to be considered "Limited"... the fact it is limited to 1000, 100, or 40... is not taken into account, it was officially released in limited quantity. Salute Event, LOTRO figurine, or early christmas figurines are "promotional" because though their quantity may be huge, they never were sold, officially (well until now... they are selling Salute 2007 it seems now).... and the MW,MS423A Galadriel, ME2, 54mm Saruman, "Theobald's Dwar" is "prototype" because they were never released eitheir sold, or used for promotional ends (except maybe the ME2 but it is not very clear)

Also as a purist in collector, I dont like to "convert" minis they have to be original, so though ddaines project would be cool, it would not be original and not have the same value for me.

What surprises me the most is that I suggest the flight of Gandalf as a MS... but it seems some people here would like it done anyway, as a MX project shared between the members of the MMP ... But well, some members of the MMP were against the flight of Ganfalf or it would have won this month's vote, so how would they accept sharing the price of a MX they do not want?
and if they would still want it then why do a MX? we only need to resubmit it next open month vote and it may eventually win this time (if we consider that besides MMP, not a lot of people are voting, or have been voting , lately)
(not to mention that it would cost FAR MUCH less than doing a MX, to buy Mithril several GF account for a single person, to influencate the votes in his favor... which, I would not do so myself as I consider it unfair... but clearly less expensive after all, you don't need to buy the requirements for this account , it would be erased in one year... but who cares? it would have served its purpose : adding voices for voting...)

well I for one, would wait until next open month, resubmit my Gandalf with quite some details when i submit the idea... and wait to see how the vote ends up, THEN and only then would I decide or not about MX project...

Gildor Inglorion · Wed, Mar5 2008 10:50am

as a side note, Estel : I for one, voted for your Earnur smile (but I admit that people must have enough witch king's' for the time being in the mithril range... there are far too many. But the decision wasn't ours to release a Witch King for LoTRO, for Salute Event AND for MS special "one year subscription" figurine...

Barliman · Wed, Mar5 2008 12:02pm

At the risk of being shouted down, this debate is becoming so wordy and long that it seems to me it would be better if it was transferred to one of the many other rooms Nob has prepared. Other customers can't even get to the bar!

Gildor Inglorion · Wed, Mar5 2008 12:35pm

I totally agree Master innkeeper smile

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