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#251 Wed, Aug10 2011 8:39pm

Gildor Inglorion
Wandering Elf
From: Montpellier, France
Registered: Fri, Jan25 2008
Posts: 4098
Website

Re: THE TAPROOM 2

I'd appreciate some posts in this sense master Arthadan, in answer to the post I just made on the official board, that will bring "water to my mill" as we say wink and I hope they'll answer this point, as I think THIS is a critical point they mentionned themselves and should be addressed.


"Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill." (Gildor Inglorion, LOTR1)

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#252 Wed, Aug10 2011 8:40pm

cameosis
Master of Languages
Registered: Tue, Jan25 2011
Posts: 586

Re: THE TAPROOM 2

Arthadan wrote:

Yes, but we're speaking also about moulding and casting Master Cameosis.

yes, i meant totals -- the first reply confirms what i had gathered previously on frothers, which is an excellent forum/portal.


Esse quam videri. (Marcus Tullius Cicero)

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#253 Wed, Aug10 2011 8:45pm

Thingol
Brave Sam the gardener
From: Republic of Croatia
Registered: Tue, Jul28 2009
Posts: 3694
Website

Re: THE TAPROOM 2

... all of those questions I'm already ask on my huge angry post on GF... after all I have many dilemmas about "break even points" calculated in mithril.... all those explanations are in some segments completely unexplained. I think this question about the cost of production of a one figure, set by Master Arthadan is fine question. After seeing more than one answer and compare the amounts of produced pieces,  it will be easier to discern what is specifically true in the case of Mithirl... I'm sure that 2100 GB pounds or Euros, are not represent break even point. That means that they must earn 27300 Euros each year just to be in break even every financial year ( and this is only for mithril if they make 13 x 100 single MS figures... no doubles, no troll, ents, balrog, etc  that cost a few euros more....) !?!?!?!??!? And what about all other figures and activities .... in their production.... how many employees they have....  how much money they pay to Chris for his work... how much money they must to pay to ME... for the license or franchise... etc.....

And.... anyway everything what I wrote on GF stays...


.... Farewell to Middle-earth at last. I see the Star above my mast!

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#254 Wed, Aug10 2011 8:47pm

Thingol
Brave Sam the gardener
From: Republic of Croatia
Registered: Tue, Jul28 2009
Posts: 3694
Website

Re: THE TAPROOM 2

400 - 500 GBP is interesting answer... let's see in next few days other costs.... if we get it.... !

Last edited by Thingol (Wed, Aug10 2011 8:48pm)


.... Farewell to Middle-earth at last. I see the Star above my mast!

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#255 Wed, Aug10 2011 8:56pm

Arthadan
Traveller
From: Spain
Registered: Fri, Nov6 2009
Posts: 426

Re: THE TAPROOM 2

Master Elf, as soon as I make up my mind about this I'll charge into battle if is fair. But as Master Tree would say, it's not good to be hasty.

Master Thingol, I think in the end everything could be resumed as "they will sell as expensive as we are willing to pay". It would be a pity to see Mithril losting the license, but if they can't manage to make profit with all the movies boom then is that they're doing something wrong. Charging high prices and asking us to do their marketing is something I simply won't accept.


To mortal fields say farewell,
Middle-earth forsaking!
In Elvenhome a clear bell
in the high tower is shaking.

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#256 Wed, Aug10 2011 9:08pm

cameosis
Master of Languages
Registered: Tue, Jan25 2011
Posts: 586

Re: THE TAPROOM 2

Arthadan wrote:

Charging high prices and asking us to do their marketing is something I simply won't accept.

there is nothing one could add to that.


Esse quam videri. (Marcus Tullius Cicero)

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#257 Wed, Aug10 2011 9:13pm

Gildor Inglorion
Wandering Elf
From: Montpellier, France
Registered: Fri, Jan25 2008
Posts: 4098
Website

Re: THE TAPROOM 2

saying all of this here... though... is pointless and won't change a thing... on mithril side

Lars and Michael think I am alone to be be upset now when I write to them... it would be good to have some VISIBLE support on Offocial communication places...

the announcment made by Lars was to explain why the costs were high... and why they would NOT change them... to tell us "we are sorry but this is it, take it or leave it"... I personnaly would prefer to make them change their mind rather than make them understand the hard way, that we "leave it" and wont take it...


"Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill." (Gildor Inglorion, LOTR1)

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#258 Wed, Aug10 2011 9:28pm

cameosis
Master of Languages
Registered: Tue, Jan25 2011
Posts: 586

Re: THE TAPROOM 2

Gildor Inglorion wrote:

the announcment made by Lars was to explain why the costs were high... and why they would NOT change them... to tell us "we are sorry but this is it, take it or leave it"

which begs the question how much sense it would make if people voiced their displeasure on the proboards site ... maybe a "leave" option would make them open their eyes and reconsider.


Esse quam videri. (Marcus Tullius Cicero)

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#259 Wed, Aug10 2011 9:34pm

Gildor Inglorion
Wandering Elf
From: Montpellier, France
Registered: Fri, Jan25 2008
Posts: 4098
Website

Re: THE TAPROOM 2

well if Lars posted this, it's mainly in answer to my quite disapointed emails to him...
i suppose they tend to listen... now about taking actions...


"Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill." (Gildor Inglorion, LOTR1)

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#260 Wed, Aug10 2011 9:42pm

Arthadan
Traveller
From: Spain
Registered: Fri, Nov6 2009
Posts: 426

Re: THE TAPROOM 2

I think speaking freely about this here is good because we can offer diferent point of views. Then we can offer an united opinion in the official boards. If is one of us saying "I don't like it" they may not care, but if is most of us they will surely listen.

I'm already "watering your mill" in the official boards, Master Elf.


To mortal fields say farewell,
Middle-earth forsaking!
In Elvenhome a clear bell
in the high tower is shaking.

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#261 Wed, Aug10 2011 9:51pm

Gildor Inglorion
Wandering Elf
From: Montpellier, France
Registered: Fri, Jan25 2008
Posts: 4098
Website

Re: THE TAPROOM 2

I saw that Arthadan and I thank you

indeed we can speak freely here more than we can on the official board, though many matters discussed in the taproom should be discussed on angrenost... this thread is totally public and does not require MMP membership, that could be problematic...

still, I am also quite upset that Lars suggests improvments for mithril site that he sees like "revolutionnary" and will please the collectors... profiles managing, collection management, wish list, trade list, galleries, and databases...
as if ALL my work had been totally nothing and not considered at all... indeed my work is unofficial but rather than investing a lot of money on other companines and webdesign to offer collectors functionnalities I have myself included, they should invest money on more serious things such as marketing and promotion...

they refused my help while I offered it 4 times in the past, giving them ideas... they declined, and declined, even when Chris himself sponsored me so that I take part in those improvments, Lars... once again... declined and refused that I take care of anything... I am.... a .. Customer.... they value customers... so they say... but customers we remain... and only that....


"Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill." (Gildor Inglorion, LOTR1)

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#262 Wed, Aug10 2011 10:52pm

cameosis
Master of Languages
Registered: Tue, Jan25 2011
Posts: 586

Re: THE TAPROOM 2

Gildor Inglorion wrote:

value customers

valuate customers, rather. wink


Esse quam videri. (Marcus Tullius Cicero)

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#263 Wed, Aug10 2011 11:11pm

Thingol
Brave Sam the gardener
From: Republic of Croatia
Registered: Tue, Jul28 2009
Posts: 3694
Website

Re: THE TAPROOM 2

Each new day is smarter than the previous one....... hoummmmmrhommmmmmmm !


.... Farewell to Middle-earth at last. I see the Star above my mast!

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#264 Wed, Aug10 2011 11:19pm

Gavin
Skilled Artisan
From: Canada
Registered: Wed, Jan30 2008
Posts: 936

Re: THE TAPROOM 2

I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that Master Tubb does not come cheap.

He is a freelancer, so he gets paid by work, but I also strongly suspect he gets some sort of retainer, paid yearly or monthly to keep him on board. Meanwhile, a significant chunk of change per release has got to go to Middle-earth Enterprises. For GW, this would be a small cost per figure, for Mithril, it will be rather more. GW, obviously, making more figures.

And you have to keep the factory going and maybe ten or so staff paid. So it all adds up. But then again, it still may not end up as €2100 per figure...

Anyway, I strongly suggested Michael go talk to Cubicle 7, not just because of the One Ring RPG, but because they have access to distributors. Imagine being able to sell boxed sets of Mithrils internationally again?

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#265 Thu, Aug11 2011 8:38am

Gildor Inglorion
Wandering Elf
From: Montpellier, France
Registered: Fri, Jan25 2008
Posts: 4098
Website

Re: THE TAPROOM 2

I told Michael to contact you Gavin as you are someone who knows about such "media" that could be helpful more than I am... I don't know if he did contact you maybe you should contact him if he has not or if he could not retrieve your from his list...

he has asked me to give him links , emails, companies or anything to begin making discussions about promotions and releasing advertising... BUT instead of being a middleman between what you know and what he's looking for, a discussion between you two would be faster and more productive...

oh and btw...  @ddaines : great post you've done on the official boards smile thank you


"Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill." (Gildor Inglorion, LOTR1)

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#266 Thu, Aug11 2011 9:12am

Milo
The Attic Warden
From: Toulouse, France
Registered: Tue, Mar30 2010
Posts: 4454

Re: THE TAPROOM 2

I agree with you Gildor, David told everything. tongue

A round for him MAster Barliman !


Milo Gamgee-Took of Bywater
________________________
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
J.R.R.Tolkien

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#267 Thu, Aug11 2011 4:41pm

Milo
The Attic Warden
From: Toulouse, France
Registered: Tue, Mar30 2010
Posts: 4454

Re: THE TAPROOM 2

Master Arthadan, Mistree Sevlag, Master Imisel, Master JdBrown55, Master Regalrick, your miniatures will leave my home tomorrow morning ! tonguelol

Then Master Barliman, I need a fresh drink...again. big_smile


Milo Gamgee-Took of Bywater
________________________
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
J.R.R.Tolkien

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#268 Thu, Aug11 2011 6:44pm

Arthadan
Traveller
From: Spain
Registered: Fri, Nov6 2009
Posts: 426

Re: THE TAPROOM 2

¡No, Master Milo! Please remember I asked you to send mine in September because I'm moving to a new house and my address will change shortly.

False alarm, I've read your PM. Thanks for remembering smile

I have news about the thread asking price to cover production costs for a single miniature. After five pages of replies, the only estimation which was close to Mithril's was made by the owner of Reaper Miniatures... but he was speaking about £1048 - £1600 for one thousand castings!! All the rest, made by UK based small companies was around £500.

Things are clear enough for me.

Last edited by Arthadan (Thu, Aug11 2011 6:57pm)


To mortal fields say farewell,
Middle-earth forsaking!
In Elvenhome a clear bell
in the high tower is shaking.

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#269 Thu, Aug11 2011 7:03pm

ddaines
Skilled Artisan
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 1958

Re: THE TAPROOM 2

Gildor Inglorion wrote:

I told Michael to contact you Gavin as you are someone who knows about such "media" that could be helpful more than I am... I don't know if he did contact you maybe you should contact him if he has not or if he could not retrieve your from his list...

he has asked me to give him links , emails, companies or anything to begin making discussions about promotions and releasing advertising... BUT instead of being a middleman between what you know and what he's looking for, a discussion between you two would be faster and more productive...

oh and btw...  @ddaines : great post you've done on the official boards smile thank you

Milo wrote:

I agree with you Gildor, David told everything. tongue

A round for him MAster Barliman !

Hic! smile, thank you gentlemen wink

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#270 Thu, Aug11 2011 7:09pm

Thingol
Brave Sam the gardener
From: Republic of Croatia
Registered: Tue, Jul28 2009
Posts: 3694
Website

Re: THE TAPROOM 2

..... costs go down. It seems that the threshold of profitability are not so high..... I'm sure there are some high hidden costs in this price difference.... perhaps Chris wage... or who knows what.... !!!!! smile


.... Farewell to Middle-earth at last. I see the Star above my mast!

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#271 Thu, Aug11 2011 7:10pm

Thingol
Brave Sam the gardener
From: Republic of Croatia
Registered: Tue, Jul28 2009
Posts: 3694
Website

Re: THE TAPROOM 2

....but when you compare the other figures in a scale of 32 mm Chris deserves every penny !


.... Farewell to Middle-earth at last. I see the Star above my mast!

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#272 Thu, Aug11 2011 7:18pm

Gildor Inglorion
Wandering Elf
From: Montpellier, France
Registered: Fri, Jan25 2008
Posts: 4098
Website

Re: THE TAPROOM 2

nowadays yes, but back in those years of Prince August Fantasy... it was not that detailed and lacked quality you could find in other brands


"Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill." (Gildor Inglorion, LOTR1)

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#273 Thu, Aug11 2011 9:07pm

Arthadan
Traveller
From: Spain
Registered: Fri, Nov6 2009
Posts: 426

Re: THE TAPROOM 2

I seriously doubt Chris charges £1500 for miniature. That would be more than Tom Meier and let's face it, Chris work is charming but nowhere near this. just look at the faces, the clothing, the chainmail... by the way this ones cost £6 (paying license, hiring the most expensive sculptor in the market and everything).


To mortal fields say farewell,
Middle-earth forsaking!
In Elvenhome a clear bell
in the high tower is shaking.

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#274 Thu, Aug11 2011 9:33pm

Thingol
Brave Sam the gardener
From: Republic of Croatia
Registered: Tue, Jul28 2009
Posts: 3694
Website

Re: THE TAPROOM 2

Arthadan wrote:

I seriously doubt Chris charges £1500 for miniature. That would be more than Tom Meier and let's face it, Chris work is charming but nowhere near this. just look at the faces, the clothing, the chainmail... by the way this ones cost £6 (paying license, hiring the most expensive sculptor in the market and everything).

Very, very nice figures... and interesting information... !


.... Farewell to Middle-earth at last. I see the Star above my mast!

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#275 Thu, Aug11 2011 9:34pm

Gildor Inglorion
Wandering Elf
From: Montpellier, France
Registered: Fri, Jan25 2008
Posts: 4098
Website

Re: THE TAPROOM 2

i assure you it has nothing to do with Chris... he does not charge a lot, or else he would not have to sell his own colelction on ebay to get money to get his children at university... right?


"Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill." (Gildor Inglorion, LOTR1)

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