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#1226 Wed, Aug5 2015 6:30pm

Barliman
The famous Innkeeper
From: Bree
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 4331

Re: THE TAPROOM 3

Metal is also a more satisfying medium for wargamers - there's something reassuring about hefting a unit of nice, heavy metal figures, whereas a strong draught can blow plastic figures off the table (I've seen it happen). And as the Elf says, there is no reduction in price - GW's so-called Finecast figures are a case in point — especially since their excuse for swapping from metal was to reduce the price of figures!


"A worthy man, but his memory is like a lumber-room: thing wanted always buried."

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#1227 Wed, Aug5 2015 7:05pm

Gildor Inglorion
Wandering Elf
From: Montpellier, France
Registered: Fri, Jan25 2008
Posts: 4098
Website

Re: THE TAPROOM 3

not to mention it is FAR more easy to "recycle" a painted metal figurine than it is with plastic

when I say recycle, I mean scrap paint off the figurine.

there are some very strong products which will remove all the acrylic paint off a metal figurine without touching metal, but if it was plastic... the figurine itself would be "dissolved"....


"Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill." (Gildor Inglorion, LOTR1)

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#1228 Wed, Aug5 2015 8:32pm

Barliman
The famous Innkeeper
From: Bree
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 4331

Re: THE TAPROOM 3

Another excellent point.


"A worthy man, but his memory is like a lumber-room: thing wanted always buried."

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#1229 Wed, Aug5 2015 10:36pm

Theobald
Wisest of Ents
From: the Osning in Germany
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 5724
Website

Re: THE TAPROOM 3

huoommm ... yes indeed, I can just completely agree to what Master Barliman und Master Gildor both pointed out concerning resin or metal castings ... huom ... concerning a limited size for metal figures being casted I think that's just a matter of price for the material by now I'm afraid ... rhuôm ... just remember MB279 (Lord of the Nazgûl with metal base), MB422 (Smaug triumphant), MB397 (Cold Drake) or especially MB358 (Scatha) ... huomm ... if you don't understand what I mean, just lift those pieces up and then you'll know ... hoooôm ... all wonderful and huge castings all in metal ... hmm ... but times seem to have changed for producing such marvels ... hom?

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#1230 Wed, Aug5 2015 11:07pm

Turambar
Archer of Mirkwood
From: Germany
Registered: Sun, Apr27 2008
Posts: 2724

Re: THE TAPROOM 3

What can I add- after too many drinks this summer night . . .
Well- mithril is metal. I agree totally.
I remember the time I hold the first mithril miniature in my hand. That was somewhere in 1992 or so.
I was impressed with its heaviness. And I am still.
I have painted some miniatures from the spanish brand "Origen Art". Master Pedro Fernandez is the sculptor.
For my taste the best miniatures EVER! Casted in resin!
I have to add, that the parts do not really fit togethet that well. But you can manage everything using milliput . . . Sometimes more, sometimes less.

I want to say: NOBODY does see of which material the figure is casted as it is presented inside a glasscabinet or whatever.
That "Origen art"minis are real treasures for me. Highly detailed and of excellent proportion.
And they are  "3-dimensional! That means they have a side view and - believe t or not: a back view! 
The minis from Mr. Tubb  seems more and more 2-dimensional without side view and with that standart cloak on the back.
(is that really necessary to give nearly EVERY figure a cloak??????????)
Remembering that poll concerning "Necromancer´s Tower-range" I answered "resin". And I will do so still.
If it is the ONLY opportunity having miniatures from that irish company in the future . . .
Imagine: there is a m-range of "Easterlings" of "Wilderland" the third "Helm´d Deep" range a fourth Helm´s Deep range - all released. But in resin . . .
What would you do?
I will buy them.

Last edited by Turambar (Wed, Aug5 2015 11:09pm)


Maybe the magic was the most powerful force in the world. But that was long ago.
The dragons are gone, the giants are dead and the children of the woods are forgotten.

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#1231 Thu, Aug6 2015 6:28am

Milo
The Attic Warden
From: Toulouse, France
Registered: Tue, Mar30 2010
Posts: 4454

Re: THE TAPROOM 3

I did not thought about mithril cloaks that way before. You are damned right Christoph,  l agree mithrils are front side designed. Thanks for this highlight Master archer.
I think I need a breakfast now, would you share one at my table?
Master Barliman! Where is Nob again ?.tongue


Milo Gamgee-Took of Bywater
________________________
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
J.R.R.Tolkien

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#1232 Thu, Aug6 2015 6:49am

Arthadan
Traveller
From: Spain
Registered: Fri, Nov6 2009
Posts: 426

Re: THE TAPROOM 3

That was my point, Master Archer. Exploring alternatives, even if they are unlikely to happen.

About materials, I think there are some missinformation here. Resin has better detail and higher price than metal (GW is not a valid example of this, as they tried to reuse metal moulds for resin casting hence the many problems and bad reputation Finecast has). For a more down-to-Earth approach regarding prices, you may check Hasslefree for example (GW is completely over the top).

Then, regarding plastic quality, it is improving vastly. Check out this French Dragons by Perry Miniatures for example.

I understand metal has to do with nostalgia, but I think as Master Archer, that as long as the detail is good I rather see new release no matter the material than no releases at all.

Last edited by Arthadan (Thu, Aug6 2015 6:51am)


To mortal fields say farewell,
Middle-earth forsaking!
In Elvenhome a clear bell
in the high tower is shaking.

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#1233 Thu, Aug6 2015 7:29am

Barliman
The famous Innkeeper
From: Bree
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 4331

Re: THE TAPROOM 3

It's not just nostalgia, Master Arthadan - I meant what I said about the satisfying weight of metal figures compared to resin or plastic. I shall always prefer metal.


"A worthy man, but his memory is like a lumber-room: thing wanted always buried."

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#1234 Thu, Aug6 2015 7:55am

Maenas
Traveller
From: Barcelona, Catalonia
Registered: Thu, Mar6 2008
Posts: 572

Re: THE TAPROOM 3

Arthadan wrote:

as long as the detail is good I rather see new release no matter the material than no releases at all.

Completely agreed.


---
Mae govannen mellon nín.

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#1235 Thu, Aug6 2015 8:15am

Gildor Inglorion
Wandering Elf
From: Montpellier, France
Registered: Fri, Jan25 2008
Posts: 4098
Website

Re: THE TAPROOM 3

well the first criteria is the quality of cast....  I for once, possess the resin base version of MB279 (and this piece is not heavy at all), and this base in resin is GREAT and very very detailed, I am completly FOR this kind of thing!

about those cloaks in the back master Turambar, you are very very right indeed... I had not given it a lot of thought but it's true that only the front of the figurines seem "worked" lately... not the back... (that has nothing to do with the medium used indeed)

Those French dragons you linked master Arthadan are great indeed, and I would like no less in terms of quality, if Mithril had to go "plastic"... but my point about metal is the same as master Barliman,  metal can be worked in a way plastic cannot

you can bend metal, slightly deform it, you can scrap painting easily, have a sensation of weight when you paint (sometimes it is a problem, for big pieces I admit... a big problem more than an advantage, mainly for fixing gluing, and having it in hand to paint it...)

Plastic is far more fragile, and you can't correct mistakes the same way as metal... (you can't bend back something that's clean broken, can you?)


"Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill." (Gildor Inglorion, LOTR1)

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#1236 Thu, Aug6 2015 3:57pm

Turambar
Archer of Mirkwood
From: Germany
Registered: Sun, Apr27 2008
Posts: 2724

Re: THE TAPROOM 3

Milo wrote:

I did not thought about mithril cloaks that way before. You are damned right Christoph,  l agree mithrils are front side designed. Thanks for this highlight Master archer. . .

Well, Master Milo, such things simply happen if you visit Master Theobald and have enlightened discussions . . .
And mithrils are not only "front side designed":
Try to count the minis which have a "movement" from left to right . . . (from the spectators view)


Maybe the magic was the most powerful force in the world. But that was long ago.
The dragons are gone, the giants are dead and the children of the woods are forgotten.

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#1237 Thu, Aug6 2015 6:55pm

Milo
The Attic Warden
From: Toulouse, France
Registered: Tue, Mar30 2010
Posts: 4454

Re: THE TAPROOM 3

Very interresting again Master archer...Let's play this funny game.
How many movements are to be considered ?
1 - none (sitting, standing for instance)
2 - from left to right like M1
3 - form right to left
4 - from back to front
5 - from front to back
6 - from down to up
7 - from up to down
8 - any others like bilbo on barrel

Now I will have a look & start counting.


Milo Gamgee-Took of Bywater
________________________
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
J.R.R.Tolkien

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#1238 Thu, Aug6 2015 7:13pm

Milo
The Attic Warden
From: Toulouse, France
Registered: Tue, Mar30 2010
Posts: 4454

Re: THE TAPROOM 3

I checked for M1 to M120.
Here is what I observed (to be consolidated with all remaining, but another day lol)
1 - 20
2 - 50
3 - 39
4 - 7
5 - 3
6 - 3
7 - 3
8 - 4

It is obvious that "non-side moves" are rare. It is a good way to ask for new improvments I think. wink


Milo Gamgee-Took of Bywater
________________________
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
J.R.R.Tolkien

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#1239 Thu, Aug6 2015 8:15pm

Barliman
The famous Innkeeper
From: Bree
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 4331

Re: THE TAPROOM 3

You obviously have a lot of time on your hands, Master Milo!

Have a drink, as a reward.


"A worthy man, but his memory is like a lumber-room: thing wanted always buried."

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#1240 Thu, Aug6 2015 8:50pm

Gildor Inglorion
Wandering Elf
From: Montpellier, France
Registered: Fri, Jan25 2008
Posts: 4098
Website

Re: THE TAPROOM 3

so many things to improve, and so little "hearing"....


"Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill." (Gildor Inglorion, LOTR1)

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#1241 Fri, Aug7 2015 11:49am

Milo
The Attic Warden
From: Toulouse, France
Registered: Tue, Mar30 2010
Posts: 4454

Re: THE TAPROOM 3

Barliman wrote:

You obviously have a lot of time on your hands, Master Milo!

Have a drink, as a reward.

I have no spare time Master barliman. I just take it, as written below in my signature.  wink
Thanks for the drink, I appreciate you reward passion & PP loyalty. cool

Last edited by Milo (Fri, Aug7 2015 11:50am)


Milo Gamgee-Took of Bywater
________________________
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
J.R.R.Tolkien

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#1242 Fri, Aug7 2015 9:38pm

Theobald
Wisest of Ents
From: the Osning in Germany
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 5724
Website

Re: THE TAPROOM 3

huooommm ... dear Master Milo is right concerning time to spend ... huom ... though a very busy  Hobbit he is ... huom

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#1243 Fri, Aug7 2015 11:20pm

Tolwen
Traveller
From: Germany
Registered: Mon, Nov8 2010
Posts: 102

Re: THE TAPROOM 3

Beside all the posts already mentioned here - and which are absolutely valid IMO - the question of metal vs. resin or plastic in Mithril is non-existent AFAIK. I remember from an older discussion or question on this topic that someone from Mithril (I'm not entirely sure whether it was Michael or someone else) very clearly and unmistakeably stated that Mithril has a license only for metal miniatures. If that is true indeed (and I have no reason to doubt it), they are not allowed by their contract to produce resin or plastic Mithril minis.
I am not sure whether MEE would have any interest in improving Mithril's license (my bet is they don't) in this respect, as Mithril has an "old" license that is probably far less expensive than GW's one. And given MEE's sole interest in pressing as much money as they can out of the licenses, they'd probably welcome any opportunity to raise royalties for such an old and "unprofitable" license... wink

If resin or plastic were to be made (and there's no change in licensing), it must be under another brand name and not Mithril (with the Middle-earth logo printed on it) and avoiding any names or terms protected by MEE's IP rights.

Cheers
Tolwen

Last edited by Tolwen (Sat, Aug8 2015 6:04pm)


Visit  Other Minds Magazine, an unofficial magazine for roleplaying and academic interests in J.R.R. Tolkien's Middle-earth and beyond.

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#1244 Fri, Aug7 2015 11:37pm

Gildor Inglorion
Wandering Elf
From: Montpellier, France
Registered: Fri, Jan25 2008
Posts: 4098
Website

Re: THE TAPROOM 3

a very good point indeed mistress Tolwen !  and I think you are perfectly right about those licence matters.

I think they can use plastic or resin though for other purpose than the figurines themselves, (accessories, base without characters, though MB279 was an exception)

I saw on the net that prince August actually sells some plastic figures for historical armies or such...
they just don't do that for Mithril


"Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill." (Gildor Inglorion, LOTR1)

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#1245 Sat, Aug8 2015 11:24am

Turambar
Archer of Mirkwood
From: Germany
Registered: Sun, Apr27 2008
Posts: 2724

Re: THE TAPROOM 3

So- it seems,after what Master Tolwen pointed out, that the discussion about resin, metal, plastic and whatever is over at this point.


Maybe the magic was the most powerful force in the world. But that was long ago.
The dragons are gone, the giants are dead and the children of the woods are forgotten.

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#1246 Sun, Aug9 2015 10:09pm

Theobald
Wisest of Ents
From: the Osning in Germany
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 5724
Website

Re: THE TAPROOM 3

Huoommm ... I think you're right, Master Turambar ...
rhûom ... so I might get back to think in pub(lic) about the latest MS-releases ... ahem ... there's one more thing that I came across concerning the still-not-fat Forlong ... rhuomgrUoomm ... maybe someone can help me ... so, in that small leaflet-thing it reads   " ... is clad in a coat of fine chainmail, with a decorated Gondorian helmet."   ... you see? ... no? .... huom ... that decorated helmet is not there ... so, who the heck does write the texts for those leaflet-things? ... huom ?

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#1247 Mon, Aug10 2015 6:38am

Barliman
The famous Innkeeper
From: Bree
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 4331

Re: THE TAPROOM 3

I'd always thought it was Master O'Brien; but it's odd that he hasn't even looked at a figure before writing its blurb.


"A worthy man, but his memory is like a lumber-room: thing wanted always buried."

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#1248 Mon, Aug10 2015 8:06am

Gildor Inglorion
Wandering Elf
From: Montpellier, France
Registered: Fri, Jan25 2008
Posts: 4098
Website

Re: THE TAPROOM 3

unless this text was written "before" with yet another version of Forlong which had a helmet, and they did not update the text...


"Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill." (Gildor Inglorion, LOTR1)

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#1249 Mon, Aug10 2015 9:32am

Arthadan
Traveller
From: Spain
Registered: Fri, Nov6 2009
Posts: 426

Re: THE TAPROOM 3

I thought Mr. Tubb was learning digital sculpting and I made the assumption Mithril was planning to move into plastic at some point.

Am I right about the digital sculpting at least?


To mortal fields say farewell,
Middle-earth forsaking!
In Elvenhome a clear bell
in the high tower is shaking.

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#1250 Mon, Aug10 2015 12:20pm

Gildor Inglorion
Wandering Elf
From: Montpellier, France
Registered: Fri, Jan25 2008
Posts: 4098
Website

Re: THE TAPROOM 3

you are right about digital sculpting,  Mithril is to move to 3D printing to create "masters" in a "plastic" medium (the one used for 3d printing)  but for final castings, they never said they would go anything else than metal

the idea is not to CAST in plastic, it is to Print in plastic, in order to create moulds for metal. That's how i understood it... Indeed they could always go full 3d printing instead of casting, but that would mean.... cancel jobs at mithril.... those who create moulds, spin them, cast them, smooth finish the casts etc...


"Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill." (Gildor Inglorion, LOTR1)

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