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the benefit of having thematic month... providing the themes are fair enough to "cycle" so that all kinds of "desires" can be fullfilled when the cycle begins once again... is that from the moment the suggestion begins we know what we can expect and can't be disapointed by the result of the suggestion list (prior to voting) which thus makes more votes in the end and less "boycott"...

let's say for example that it's a "personnality" month... then only personnality sugestions would be submitted or if not, Mithril would decide or not if it fills the "pre-requisite" (IF the theme is an obligation... which is not at the moment) well it would work the same way as the no-mounted or no-vignette policy...

If someone desperatly wants a mounted or vignette figurine well he won't submit at all for months that are not fit for these suggestions or well he will force himself to find another idea... I know what I'm talking about, I'm in this case.... but when the voting comes he is not totally upset that no vignette or no mounted appear.... well it can work precisely the same for personalities month

actually what strong themes could there be?  In itself having mounted months and vignette months provided ideas to members that were well fit for this... Indeed one can always submit a single... in a vignette month... that's a total waste but that's democracy...  and usually when it comes to vote, vignette will win because people want vignettes (except if the single is REALLY worthy) now for single only (which representes more than 75% of our suggestions possibilities, we could divide these into "free" and personalies themes... I don't think that being TOO detailed is a good idea as it is too restrictive (such as "good" or "evil" suggestion, "funny" or "elven" etc)
Personalities, though restrictive, offers a large specter of possibilities .... (provided people don't start submitting WitchKings and Gandalf over and over again...)

There are personnalities in every race, every place and faction, lots of them have never been cast in the whole mithril range... if you lack ideas, I suggest you get yourself the Robert Foster "Complete Guide to Middle Earth" or J.E.A Tyler "The Complete Tolkien Companion" which are two huges books of names throughout all tolkien works (from Hobbit to Silmarillion, and even Unfinished tales and HoME for the Tyler Companion)

we can also make two other themes : "townfolk" and "military"... Lately Mithril lacks a lot of "NON-army" figurines but common townfolk etc...

Indeed, these themes could also apply to regular M Ranges.... especially townfolk vs. armyfolk....

hopefully, very very soon we'll have a REGULAR release of several figurines, NON-army AND personnalities... WITH furniture... which will satisfy many people I think... especially myself...


but I won't say more

Well, I did some number crunching today. Math isn't my strong suit, but the results I got are:

Of the current Mithril Fellowship miniatures, we have:

55 in print miniatures. 58 if you include Aragorn, Isildur and the other Witch-king
42 (45) are named characters.

12 references are new versions of extant Mithrils (all in print)
5 are repeats of earlier versions of extant Fellowship miniatures.
12 are primarily gaming figures. Most of those are MERP inspired.

12 our of 56 is not the majority, not overwhelming or representative of a trend. The vast majority are pure collector figures.

Bear in mind that every Fellowship member is obliged to purchase at least six releases per year. This represents an outgoing of 120 euro, minimum, or the equivalent of two older M-series. Each member has also paid 21 euro (with free Aragorn) to join the fellowship. Crude game theory indicates that each member should suggest, vote and pay for the figures they would like the most.

Part of the problem is that with close to 560 M-figures alone, and probably well above 600 32mm mithrils extant, nearly every suggestion will have been done before. Narvi is a beautiful model - who does not even appear in any of the books. He is a guy, with a name, who carved a door. We know next to nothing else about him. Hirluin is mentioned about four or five times in the book. The lovely Ingold model represents a character who appears for a mere paragraph.

More vignettes would be nice, but again, these would be pricey. With a six-release obligation a year, that rapidly outstrips the ability of most members to pay. There was no suggestion at the beginning that the Fellowship would be an all-50 euro vignettes all the time. But for a while there, its how it developed. Keeping things to a single figure for most months is far fairer.

So where does that leave us?

The fellowship remains a collector's range. A small minority of figures are gameable works. The single figure release model does seem to lead to many of the things some are complaining about. We can expect either more obscure single figure releases (someone like Galdor or Erestor); or repeats of extant figures (eg Boromir, or my half heartedly suggested Faramir). Years ago Mithril identified that one third of their market was wargamers/roleplayers, one third of the market was diorama builders and one third collectors. Currently the Fellowship range supports the collecting part of the market. I am sure there are far more collectors buying Mithrils nowadays, but there are still diorama builders and there are still wargamers. And some who are all three.

We are all at the mercy of Mithril's quixhotic release schedules, and plans. The fellowship we have some control over. M-series come out once a year, if that. It's likely we are looking at several years of Helm's Deep releases. Want something not Rohir or Dunnish? Might be a problem.

In conclusion, vote for what you would love to see, and campaign. If you lose out this month, try again and again.

Last edited by Gavin (Fri, Aug6 2010 9:14pm)

Is that...

is that....

A RUMOUR master Gildor?

I missed this, but...sniffs, that yes, looks like a rumour.

Spill

Thank you Gavin for your toilsome report.
As Master Barliman pointed out, I'm also way more concerned about the ongoing absence of new 'M' figures than the idiosyncrasies of the Fellowship range.
( I have to quote him, in this case, cause english is not my first speak and it´s hard sometimes to say it right.)
Simply saying: a non release of a regular range simply brakes my nerves meanwhiling. And I am not willing to spend my money only for the fellowship range.
It is simply too expensive and the figures are not that much "compatible". As Gavin evidenced: the price of a MS mini is the THIRD !!! The THIRD !!!!
Of course you should suggest what you want and everybody does that, including myself.
And of course you vote for your very own favourite. This is completely right! What else should you do!!! Thsi is absolutely NOT to blame!
So the discussion about this is simply odd. The point is, that there is no "place" for the more "common" figures.
And if mithril simply do not release a "normal" range there is only the way for you suggesting a standart bearer (or what else is named "common") that way.
This is dangerous on one side. It polarizes! And it actually works. There is a discussion every time, which mini is worth realeased as a MS figure or which is not.
EVERY miniature sculpted by The Man has got is f##++* right. But releasing all them as expensive MS releases is- well let me be a bit offense please- a crust!
If you translate all this: mithril say: ney- please pay about 20 € for a miniature if you want to have one. We gave you- custumer- NO other chance.
I would like to say: go to hell, mithril if there is not this passion about The Man´s skill.
For that reason I desperately waiting for his phaeton-releases so very much, believe me.

So there is only mithril to be bamed- once more I have to say! Remember our posts last year. And NOT the fellows or the suggestions themselves.
For me the only solution is to have a regular "regular-release" which let the MS releases be what it should be: something special for a special price.
So The Man canconcentrate his abilities for the M-ramge and can put more details in the MS-release which make the THIRD price worth it!
( Arvedui! Really a brilliant figure! But there is nothing special. Just a man with a cloak for 19,95€ ?! )
Actually Mithril is making money with the MS range, some people would say this. True- until they release more than ONE M-range a year.
Otherwise they will make money with the release of a M-range! 
I wait for the next release of the Helm´s Deep Series for ONE YEAR! Tto go ahead with my diorama. So- what should I do?
My painted Halforcs and Rohan warriors are simply dust on my workbench and the feeling of frustation is what remains.
It is all a pity.

Last edited by rita.de (Fri, Aug6 2010 11:21pm)

Gavin wrote:

Is that...

is that....

A RUMOUR master Gildor?

I missed this, but...sniffs, that yes, looks like a rumour.

Spill

the only rumour in this is the release date and mostly mass-production date by Mithril... but the set is already done and set to be sold PRIOR to any Helm's Deep 2 set... this "special" BUT regular M release should occur in october or around... We'll see what Lars decides..

about the rest... about names... Indeed there are always "obscure" names but if you do take the LOTR appendices you have a lot of still non-exploited names...

on a marketing strategy, selling at higher price but less production to reliable and known customers is always safer than mass producing regulars that won't find retailers and in the end no safety to be sold and generate additional logistic fees...
Until Mithril is STRONG in terms of "online" advertising and e-business possibilites, not having to rest upon retailers, there is too much risk with regulars...

indeed the prices are high, that's a vicious circle, all is linked...

when you did your math Gavin, you are right about the final numbers, more names are winners... now the problem that was quoted is about Suggestions... not the winners...

the number of votes sometimes (if not always) decreases due to the 1) lack of suggestions 2) fact that suggestions lack originality and so less people vote because they don't care for a choice or the other.... or simply boycott voting...

In the end, what percentage of the GF members do actually vote, and why?


there is a paradox here... it is said that currently the GF figurines are mainly oriented towards "collector"....  Collectors are -mainly- people who can't miss a release and will buy everything that is released (via autoshipment sometimes etc) ... but those collectors who "force themself" to buy everything may be quite upset at times to "have to buy" things they do not like at all "in the concept" even if usually the final sculpture is excellent...

Maybe I am wrong but I had seen posts of Michael saying that the quota of 6figurines / year was not upheld at the moment but it may be back up....  Now I suppose those who want to buy the 12/ year who receive the "free" figurine (when there is one) should have nothing to say that would be fair...

well, I suppose my bitterness all comes from an egoistic fact that is I'd want to see a VIGNETTE realized for more than 3 years now (and only that...) and each time there is an opportunity, I see "oddities" being suggested... Maybe only because I grew up with the notion of MS being the one of the old MS of the first fellowship... and can't manage to understand how a ... standard-bearer, drummer or trumpeter (orc, elven, human whatever) could match with Wulf of Edoras, Isildur and Elrond at Gorgorth, the Oath of Cirion and Eorl... etc

also though this is not the debate, all will have noticed that Mithril makes wonderful vignettes (be they MS or MV) and it has been some time since we last saw any true vignette... no need for them to be MS... MV could be cool too... ah but I had forgotten... MV is part of regular.. and there are no regulars.... so MS? ah but I forgot, it is only one vignette suggestion a year... and not necessarily a vignette in the end... (the unfinished party is a big scene, not really a vignette technically if you see what I mean)

well once again, I suppose I'd have to wait and see... Clearly I'm being overly egoistic and upset in what I expect from Mithril...
Maybe because 1) I possess all Mithril has ever done 2) I keep buying all they release no matter if it pleases me or not... which makes me a "collector"... for which the GF seems clearly addressed too at the moment...
But wait a minute? GF is for "collectors", I am a "collector"... and I am the only one complaining about these points...

Ok the problem is then with me...

Master Barliman I need a drink...

well as said before master innkeeper, there should be another M regular release before the HD2.... and this release should occur in two months at best.

you will all notice that there has not been any regulars since last time... when HD1 was release there was litteraly a "demonstration" from us about the outrageous retail price of the set... which forced mithril to cut down their price in order to sell... which MAY have lead to them losing money instead of gaining any benefit...

(logistic problems indeed, but in the price of the figurine there is also a part for the "unsold but produced" figurines and the logistics sum involved in promoting them so that retailers have them in their shops (bitter laugh...))

Maybe Lars is afraid that if he releases regular again... at the price of a MS... there will be another act of disapointment (which would be rightful) but the financial balance of Mithril may not currently allow to release regulars... at a FAIR price.... I actually think this is one of the main reasons they prefer not releasing...

I never understood why Mithril can't produce smaller batchers of regulars but KEEP their moulds in order to release future batches if need be... or maybe there is another money problem involving the price of metal being less expensive if they made MANY in a row...  well I'm not paid to make political and logistic choices for Mithril or even have any insight about what they do... I have done my job of trying to promote Mithril enough I think... and all my suggestions and requests have been received with scepticism by Michael and did not even resulted in a direct answer from Lars....

are they afraid of me? or simply do not care at all about all that we do... (which would thus mean they don't care about mithril itself... 'cause what we propose usually is for mithril benefit, not ours..)
and when I say we, I do not speak as a king .... but I mean the community

My impression of the purpose of the GF was to that it was a device to suggest characters from the world of Tolkien that we would like to see made into reality and figures which might also fire the imagination of others (licensing restrictions allowing). All my suggestions are based upon that line of thought.

If a figure is not necessarily a named figure, or even comes from a MERP source is not a worry to me personally as long as the finished figure is good. A figure that wins the vote is also someone's dream come true, their very own 5 minutes of fame.

Also whereas a common figure such as a standard bearer should perhaps be more suited to a general M range release, if the opportunity arises where another figure has been voted, i.e. Thranduil, then with a vignette in mind, I suggested his standard bearer which I wanted and which won (the fact that I have not painted either is by the by ).

The GF is however becoming an expensive 'hobby', and I have thought several times if it is indeed worth paying so much money for such a small scale figure especially as I will probably not live long enough to paint them all (probably  ), Mithril it would seem 'have us by the balls ' I guess for as long as we want these figures most will I guess be prepared to pay the price (ladies please excuse the term as it don't apply). But then along come some of the latest sculpts and there can be little argument, that they have for the most part all been very colectable figures, but still very expensive.

One question that I have wondered is what now sets the price of GF figures? I'm not sure how many GF members there are, but if each has to commit to at least six figures, has the price stayed the same now there are presumably more members than the original start-up crowd or have we seen a relative price freeze - an early single figure is still the same price as a new one (the figure 344 appears to be the Mithril Forum membership, but not necessarily GF membership).

I do wonder if the GF is now a cynical ploy to allow Mithril to keep the license for Tolkien related figures without doing anything seriously about promoting the wider range of figures, it keeps us lot 'happy' and 'hanging on', living in the continuous dream world that a new M range will appear sometime soon.

Why Mithril do not re-release old sets and swamp the market with quality Tolkien figures has always amazed me - I mean, who in their right mind, knowing what the market is for MM's on the secondary market, would not jump on the band-wagon and re-release the old sets, one would assume that even unallowed figures could be renamed as a character that falls within the license.

As to commercial knowledge, I ain't got a clue, but would agree with Barli's view that once all fees have been paid providing the moulds are kept in good condition, you spin them and cast figures to meet demand - that is certainly what a one time contact did when releasing his white metal figures, after all the initial costs are the same once they have been paid.

But I guess there is more chance of Sauron giving to charity than getting a breakthrough on this front

Did someone mention elsewhere that a vignette was due?

An interesting point. After all, I should imagine that MEE will want their pound of flesh, and must expect a worthwhile return on their licence - otherwise, what's in it for them at the end of the day? Whether they dictate that a specific number of products have to be produced or sold per year, or the licensee is expected to generate a specific amount of revenue for MEE's coffers I don't know, but either way, as things stand at the moment I can't imagine that Mithril are generating the sort of revenue/royalty that a big multinational like MEE would expect!

and the final problem is... they can't stop their contracts with their distributors... because these are Prince August contracts, not mithril ones... and among the products they sell... there are paints, paintbrushes, diorama materials etc etc... which sell well and need distributors ...

you can't stop a contract for mithril and keep it for their other products... and any retailers in france (sorry I don't know other countries) will always deal with PA France only and never with PA Ireland or Mithril...

I have enough!
I deleted my topics!
If I missed one please let me know I'll delete it aswell!
Cheers!

Last edited by hsf62 (Sat, Aug7 2010 3:27pm)

..Oh, and the next round is on Master Shadyt. He's obviously the one with all the money!

"Not everything that counts can be counted and not everything that can be counted counts."
- Albert Einstein