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#4676 Mon, Nov1 2010 2:36pm

erchamion
Adventurer
From: Granada, Spain
Registered: Tue, Apr1 2008
Posts: 825

Re: The Taproom

The appendices don´t say anything about wargs. Only that Wainriders were mounted on Quadriga (Latin quadri-, four, and jungere, yoke, unite with a team). If we understand that this is a similarity with the Greco-Roman chariot, the wainriders would go on chariot pulled by 4 horses.
It also has its logic, all Oriental peoples, Variags, etc.... were great knights in all the writings of Tolkien wink smile


¡Fuera, viejo Tumulario! ¡Desaparece a la luz! ¡Encógete como la niebla fría, llora como el viento en las tierra estériles, más allá de los montes! ¡No regreses aquí! ¡Deja vacío el túmulo! Perdido y olvidado, más sombrío que la sombra, quédate donde las puertas están cerradas para siempre, hasta los tiempos de un mundo mejor. Tom Bombadil LOTR1

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#4677 Mon, Nov1 2010 2:56pm

Theobald
Wisest of Ents
From: the Osning in Germany
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 5724
Website

Re: The Taproom

Huoommm ... thank you very much ... so both of you seem to remember them Wainriders from the East... rhuoomm ... as for you, Master Erchamion, I value your judgement very much ... huom ... though the chariots drawn by just two horses were more effective in terms of speed and steering ... huom ... so horses the wainriders used, no wargs ... the weapons they used were sets of javelins and bows .... right? ... I think our barkeep can help with this too ... hommm ... I'll keep on considering this matter ... huoommm ...

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#4678 Mon, Nov1 2010 3:06pm

Barliman
The famous Innkeeper
From: Bree
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 4331

Re: The Taproom

Yes indeed, Master Tree, you're right as ever.

Master Archer, there are several wargame figure companies that produce appropriate wagons for "real world" steppe nomad types (such as Pechenegs), and I intend to use some of these for Wainrider wagons (when I eventually get the time...).

Meanwhile, Master Eerchamion, in the English - and therefore original - edition of ROTK Tolkien calls the Wainsriders' wagons simply 'wains'  - of which I assume 'Quadriga' is the nearest Spanish translation - but tells us that their chieftains fought in 'chariots'. In other words, their families and lower ranks travelled in ponderous wagons drawn by four or more horses, which were for transport only but would have been used to form laagers when they encamped, while their upper-classes fought from fast-moving two-horse and probably two-wheeled vehicles.


"A worthy man, but his memory is like a lumber-room: thing wanted always buried."

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#4679 Mon, Nov1 2010 3:42pm

erchamion
Adventurer
From: Granada, Spain
Registered: Tue, Apr1 2008
Posts: 825

Re: The Taproom

Indeed, Master Barliman. In the Spanish edition is said literally in Appendix A: "[Los aurigas] viajaban en grandes carromatos, y sus capitanes luchaban en cuádrigas"

In Spanish, Quadriga = 4 horses, to differentiate it from the Triga = 3 horses and Biga = 2 horses (all from the Latin, of course). Although it is more logical than you and Master Tree say about biga/two horses chariot smile


¡Fuera, viejo Tumulario! ¡Desaparece a la luz! ¡Encógete como la niebla fría, llora como el viento en las tierra estériles, más allá de los montes! ¡No regreses aquí! ¡Deja vacío el túmulo! Perdido y olvidado, más sombrío que la sombra, quédate donde las puertas están cerradas para siempre, hasta los tiempos de un mundo mejor. Tom Bombadil LOTR1

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#4680 Mon, Nov1 2010 4:51pm

Theobald
Wisest of Ents
From: the Osning in Germany
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 5724
Website

Re: The Taproom

Ahem ... thank you indeed ... I was waiting for Master Barlimen's comment on this matter ... and to be honest, I can confirm parts of what he said ... rhuoomm ..
first of all the word "wain" Master Tokien used in his writings simply means carts or chariot. The "Wain-riders" were those unknown who were able to ride wains. This also has been found out about Celtic tribes ( as it was stated correctly before by our barkeep). Not to mix up Celts (or rather Dunlendings) with Easterlings I think that the old strategy of being fast and impressive more relates to old Egyption warfare. - Which to us comes closer to the East and history. So Being driven in a chariot in ancient Rome was rather more a point of approval. The "Quadrigas" mentioned here are very hard to handle, being steered perfectly. That was for show and keeping them Romans their bread and games ...
If you ask me, I would decide on a "Biga", which is very much faster and easier to handle - in case the horses are well-trained. It's simply more effective in terms of warfare.

Master Baliman, those Pechenegs you mentioned were historically based between the Dnepr and the Don. As far as I know they did not use any kind of chariots or wains.
huoooooommmmmrhuommm ...

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#4681 Mon, Nov1 2010 5:06pm

Barliman
The famous Innkeeper
From: Bree
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 4331

Re: The Taproom

You are ill-informed on that count, Master Tree. They did indeed use wagons, and very effectively in battle - just do a Google search using the words Pechenegs and wagons and you'll see what I mean.

Also, the word "wains" does NOT mean chariots! - far from it, so don't open up that can of worms again. Wains were cumbersome carts, plain and simple, drawn by either oxen or horses. Some idiotic 19th-century Romantic poets confused the issue by using the word as an alternative for "chariot" when they were stuck for a rhyme, but since they probably wouldn't have made very good soldiers I think we can (and should) excuse and ignore them.


"A worthy man, but his memory is like a lumber-room: thing wanted always buried."

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#4682 Mon, Nov1 2010 6:02pm

Theobald
Wisest of Ents
From: the Osning in Germany
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 5724
Website

Re: The Taproom

Rhuoommm ... that's why I use to frequent this "Pony" ... huommm ... there's always something to learn and get to know around here ... huoommm ... except them rumours of course ... hom

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#4683 Tue, Nov2 2010 10:19am

Milo
The Attic Warden
From: Toulouse, France
Registered: Tue, Mar30 2010
Posts: 4454

Re: The Taproom

Very interresting discussion. I have nothing more to add on horses but, maybe we can also discuss on the wine quality here ?

Sam Gamegee told my family one day that in Henneth Annun on March 7, Faramir gave him a pale yellow wine that coursed through his body so that he felt refreshed and at ease. This wine did cause also Sam begining to smile and hum to himself, and the wine may have loosened his tongue for he mentioned the One Ring to Faramir.

Master Barliman , do you sell such grape liquor ?


Milo Gamgee-Took of Bywater
________________________
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
J.R.R.Tolkien

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#4684 Tue, Nov2 2010 11:13am

Barliman
The famous Innkeeper
From: Bree
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 4331

Re: The Taproom

I sell anything so long as people pay. But I recommend the scrumpy - it's cheaper and you get way more for your money.


"A worthy man, but his memory is like a lumber-room: thing wanted always buried."

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#4685 Tue, Nov2 2010 12:07pm

Milo
The Attic Warden
From: Toulouse, France
Registered: Tue, Mar30 2010
Posts: 4454

Re: The Taproom

OK, here are coiny things for a scrumpy then. tongue


Milo Gamgee-Took of Bywater
________________________
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
J.R.R.Tolkien

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#4686 Tue, Nov2 2010 2:10pm

Barliman
The famous Innkeeper
From: Bree
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 4331

Re: The Taproom

Ker-ching!

(Sorry, trhe cash register isn't working, so I just have to get Nob to say "ker-ching".)


"A worthy man, but his memory is like a lumber-room: thing wanted always buried."

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#4687 Tue, Nov2 2010 5:24pm

Wendy
Slowest Painter Ever
From: Michigan, USA
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 365
Website

Re: The Taproom

It's like Christmas today...

Mithril package arrived, with the first produced Bard with thrush that I requested but not the second one I ordered for painting purposes.  The note said they'll send it when it's available.  I guess at least enough people like him that the first run sold out?  And the Thunderbolt Mountain set of French and Indian War minis that I bought off someone who decided he didn't want them (too small for him).

Now to get painting...some dwarfs...

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#4688 Tue, Nov2 2010 5:34pm

Milo
The Attic Warden
From: Toulouse, France
Registered: Tue, Mar30 2010
Posts: 4454

Re: The Taproom

Cheers Mistress painter. Show us your work as soon as you have pictures !lol
I wish I find some time to paint my dwarves also.
8 for Carrock, 13 for UP ==> 21 on the todo list !mad


Milo Gamgee-Took of Bywater
________________________
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
J.R.R.Tolkien

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#4689 Tue, Nov2 2010 9:07pm

Thingol
Brave Sam the gardener
From: Republic of Croatia
Registered: Tue, Jul28 2009
Posts: 3694
Website

Re: The Taproom

Master Milo.. today I've received complete order in my package also with MS299.. it seems that this was the last one on stock.... ... sad    ! See comment on post 4624

Last edited by Thingol (Tue, Nov2 2010 9:08pm)


.... Farewell to Middle-earth at last. I see the Star above my mast!

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#4690 Wed, Nov3 2010 9:24am

Milo
The Attic Warden
From: Toulouse, France
Registered: Tue, Mar30 2010
Posts: 4454

Re: The Taproom

I did not receive minis from Macroom yet. Happy to see yours are safe now.big_smile


Milo Gamgee-Took of Bywater
________________________
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
J.R.R.Tolkien

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#4691 Wed, Nov3 2010 4:20pm

Turambar
Archer of Mirkwood
From: Germany
Registered: Sun, Apr27 2008
Posts: 2724

Re: The Taproom

Master Caster, because the "eagle" is on his way ( wink ) I suggest we should have a cool drink here in this famous inn.


Maybe the magic was the most powerful force in the world. But that was long ago.
The dragons are gone, the giants are dead and the children of the woods are forgotten.

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#4692 Wed, Nov3 2010 5:58pm

Barliman
The famous Innkeeper
From: Bree
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 4331

Re: The Taproom

Famous? So how many stars has the Michelin guide given me at last?


"A worthy man, but his memory is like a lumber-room: thing wanted always buried."

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#4693 Wed, Nov3 2010 6:07pm

Gildor Inglorion
Wandering Elf
From: Montpellier, France
Registered: Fri, Jan25 2008
Posts: 4098
Website

Re: The Taproom

ahh don't begin talking about restaurants and Michelin stars wink

I am a "fin gourmet" my dear wink


"Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill." (Gildor Inglorion, LOTR1)

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#4694 Wed, Nov3 2010 7:08pm

Barliman
The famous Innkeeper
From: Bree
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 4331

Re: The Taproom

I'm sure you'll get better soon.


"A worthy man, but his memory is like a lumber-room: thing wanted always buried."

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#4695 Wed, Nov3 2010 7:14pm

Theobald
Wisest of Ents
From: the Osning in Germany
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 5724
Website

Re: The Taproom

Huoommmm ... so why then, Master Gildor, are you still frequenting this place for about that long, I wonder ... huom ... outside Bree there are some better places to have a good meal and an even better drink ... rhuoommm ... I always thought that an Elf might know that ... huoommm ...

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#4696 Wed, Nov3 2010 7:21pm

Theobald
Wisest of Ents
From: the Osning in Germany
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 5724
Website

Re: The Taproom

Huoommm ... Master Barliman, I'm feeling better once I said this ... rhuoommm? ... or? ... well ... ahem ... alas ... err ... you answered our Master Elf, didn't you? ... huooommm ... sorry

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#4697 Wed, Nov3 2010 7:45pm

Barliman
The famous Innkeeper
From: Bree
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 4331

Re: The Taproom

No more free drinks for you, Master Tree....


"A worthy man, but his memory is like a lumber-room: thing wanted always buried."

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#4698 Wed, Nov3 2010 8:33pm

Gildor Inglorion
Wandering Elf
From: Montpellier, France
Registered: Fri, Jan25 2008
Posts: 4098
Website

Re: The Taproom

not so many places offer such good company I assure you wink


"Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill." (Gildor Inglorion, LOTR1)

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#4699 Wed, Nov3 2010 11:32pm

Turambar
Archer of Mirkwood
From: Germany
Registered: Sun, Apr27 2008
Posts: 2724

Re: The Taproom

I hear only "gourmet" . Is that really the right expression for an inn like that one??!!
Where is that dude from Down Under?? His hour is near . . . about 20 min - I assume - he will be around . . .
And then he will know, that the " Eagle is on his way " . . .  Yes he is . . .
And thatfore I will take a midnight-drink at this lonely bar . . .
Where are Barli´s whisky-barrels . .  .


Maybe the magic was the most powerful force in the world. But that was long ago.
The dragons are gone, the giants are dead and the children of the woods are forgotten.

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#4700 Thu, Nov4 2010 7:00am

Barliman
The famous Innkeeper
From: Bree
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 4331

Re: The Taproom

Where you can't get at them without me seeing, that's where.


"A worthy man, but his memory is like a lumber-room: thing wanted always buried."

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