Many Mithril Pages @ Faerylands

I also took the opportunity to check the three different metals PA is using (and selling) :

cheaper is : Standard metal (65% Lead / 2% Antimony / 33% Tin) melts at 210°C Cast at 320-340°C.

best quality (according to them is : Model Metal (54% Lead / 11% Tin / 35% Bismuth) melts at 138°C Cast at 300-320°C.

lead-free metal (more expensive) is: 5 Star Metal (94.5% Tin / 3% Zinc / 2.5% Antimony) melts at 230°C
Cast at 320-340°C

I hope they did not choose standard metal, it would be a.. pity to say the least... and though I doubt they are dumb enough to use 5 star metal because of "lead free", it is BOTH more expensive and uses a higher melt/casting  point making it harder to cast... and may generate shrinkage?


If I remember well,
- bismuth is used to lower the melting point and for its malleability
- antimony is used for its hardness and capacity to reproduce small details but has a HIGH melting point (but there is none in "model metal...)
- zinc is a cheap metal with low fusion point but good melting capacity... but it generates shrinkage... and other problems such as misruns and cold shuts... and it is used in 5 metal, along with antominy)

Conserind those figurines are shrinked but the details are excellent... the more I think about it the more I think they have been using 5 star metal instead of Model Metal (maybe because they were out of stock of model metal at some point in the past... I think to remember they were out of stock of model metal, some months ago...)

that would be a pity.... not only considering 5 star is more expensive ... but also if they use the casting technique used for Model,.. but they use 5 star.... and do not inject casting metal to counter the effect of shrinking during cooldown.

did they ever say their figurines were lead free?

besides,  smaller ogres and ents , in "size" does not seem to be a shrink matter... but using 5 star metal for their casting instead of Model would be paradoxal with their own marketing arguments concerning metal sales...
besides, using 5 star metal would not be a problem if... they respect the fact the metal shrinks and adapt the casting technique in accordance, which they seem not to do...

Gildor Inglorion wrote:

did they ever say their figurines were lead free?

No, but that's not the point I was making. My point was that by using the 5 star metal they would then, at some point in the future, be able to market their newer figures as "lead-free" - which may eventually become (and in some places, such as California, has been for quite a while) important.

Gildor Inglorion wrote:

besides,  smaller ogres and ents , in "size" does not seem to be a shrink matter...

Once again, that's not the point I was making. Obviously, their smaller size results from the way they were designed, and has nothing to do with shrinkage. What I was suggesting was that by deliberately designing such larger figures to a smaller scale, less metal would be needed in casting them, and hence enough money might to be saved to cover the cost of using 5 star metal.

If they weren't designed smaller in order to save metal, and therefore money, WHY were threy designed to a smaller scale in the first place? It's not the subject we're discussing, I realise, but it's still a puzzle that warrants explanation.

Can't help you there - I haven't bought mine yet.

The metal used the speed from the spinncasting machine and the heat of the metal makes all the difference to the result of the cast. So yes, if they used the 5 star metal for whatever reason and left the heat of the melting pot aswell as the speed of the casting machine unchanged, then it wouldn't surprise me at all, that the minis are a lot lighter and didn't fill out the mould as good as the other metals would have done.

huoommm ... so cheers to you, Master Hsf62 ... huom ... it's good to have two reliable experts of casting by spin-moulds around here ... huuommmm ... such as you and Master Xenophile definitely are ... rhuoommm ....
... well, Master Gildor, I cannot judge upon this matter as I ... huom ... fortunately? ... did not receive the vignette until today, though I ordered it at once when it was announced ... rhuomm .. hom ... anyway, all this leaves me a bit speechless ..... huom

Ah ha!
First thank you David for that convincing photo.
So what do I see? A perfect fitting "new" Thranduil sorounded by King Elessar. In this case I can not blame anything . . .

Hi guys.. I think this discussion goes to far.... now we are discussing about metal for casting... so there are 2 facts... metal for casting is definitely lighter and softer and I do not know in which category goes this... but the fact is that many figures in last releases are made from this kind of metal...

And the second think.... Elven king and 2 elves are for sure a little bit smaller then the same figures of the same characters.... I compared other figures and all of them are in the same scale and can not notice a any ( especially not - big ) difference.... and I compared all 4 Bards... and yes all of them have different size of heads... and 4 Boromir's are all different... and all Aragorn's figures.. non of them are no 100% same size...

So my suggestion is.... please guys we should stop with this and we must enjoy in this new great vignette... have a good night to all !

okidoki, let's celebrate then and discuss other matters

the twins Michaël and Alexander should be among us in a month or so now this summer won't be a resting one for me I fear hehe

Well, kind words from Chris. While I am pleased to have played a part, there is no doubt that credit for the quality of the figures is due to him.

Probably my last word on shrinkage. As hsf62 suggests, any alloy will have a combination of spin speed, temperature and to a lesser extent mould pressure, where it gives best reproduction. A cold mould or a hot mould can cause problems of their own - moulds expand and contract too. Generally, the amount of shrinkage is tiny especially at 32mm scale. It becomes more apparent with larger models. Which is a shame since those the are ones which use most metal and where you may need to use a cheaper alloy. Bismuth and tin are expensive metals. (And when you are using different alloys, there is always the possibility of contamination. Contamination is bad.)

(The only effect on design I recall was making the bases thinner to use less metal. Some of the PA figures which preceded Mithril had very thick bases and these probably made up a third of their weight.)

Other factors besides reproduction accuracy and cost matter too by the way. Mechanical strength is more important as figures become larger or more intricate. And some alloys especially with antimony cast with a hard surface which doesn't take paint well.

Chris did and probably still does measure things, but at this scale, there is bound to be a little variation figure to figure. And people aren't all 2M high after all.

So slight differences in size could arise from any number of factors. Even looking too hard!

......and another round for everybody on Master cameosis and me !  .... and for Gildor's boys.... another one + cheers !

What time is it, MAster Theobald?
Do you think we should have a nice hot coffee together . . . ?