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#326 Mon, Aug20 2018 9:19am

Mornedhel
Traveller
From: Luxembourg province, Belgium
Registered: Fri, Nov21 2008
Posts: 581

Re: Mithril and the Fellowships Chronology

Is The Man still able to sculpt by hand? Chris is no longer young (as I and many of us)
Time Investment in digital sculpting is huge ( I am on the learning process of ZBrush) and if Chris choose this path it's for good reasons other than pricing.
However When I compare to other digital figs produced with this tool, Mithril is now far behind (Balrog picture)


http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w392/thijlwe/IMG_1082.jpg

Last edited by Mornedhel (Mon, Aug20 2018 10:20am)


________________________________
Elen silla lumenn omentilmo

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#327 Mon, Aug20 2018 9:42am

Barliman
The famous Innkeeper
From: Bree
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 4249

Re: Mithril and the Fellowships Chronology

I seem to recall that adopting this "printing" process was as a result of pressure from some of us collectors, rather than a personal desire to change. Big mistake.


"A worthy man, but his memory is like a lumber-room: thing wanted always buried."

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#328 Mon, Aug20 2018 12:16pm

hsf62
Master Caster
From: Australia Germany
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 2811

Re: Mithril and the Fellowships Chronology

Very impressive! The baby has pointy teeth!wink
Well, I didn't think with this programm you are only able to print square things..... like bows and swords....lollol

Last edited by hsf62 (Mon, Aug20 2018 12:17pm)


Where there is a will there is a way, just as there are no problems, only solutions! Guess it depends on ones own perspective of the matter at that time big_smile

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#329 Mon, Aug20 2018 8:54pm

cameosis
Master of Languages
Registered: Tue, Jan25 2011
Posts: 584

Re: Mithril and the Fellowships Chronology

Theobald wrote:

I cannot understand why there still are no pictures of real figures provided. I think those "sceenshots" (or what is it they take instead of photos?) do not reveil what you receive when you've ordered a figure. Since the start of that MZ-series I am still very much annoyed about that matter. Maybe there is no time (interest?) to assemble and prime those releases at the company to take a photograph.
Er, sorry,  that I am among those who regard this "development" very critically as I have become more and more disappointed.

it’s called a render. zbrush in fact offers many great options to optimize said render, even if it’s monochromatic. lighting and so-called materials (information that tells the program how to deal with light and shadow) play an important role in setting up an appropriate render suitable for presentation or display.

here’s just one quick video as an example, skip to 02:20 and have a look if you’re inclined:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPy4xjDeXbY

another one in color, but also informative:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRHXiv0iAfg

zbrush itself is an amazing tool and i have decided a while ago that i will invest in a tablet with pen to start working with it. the possibilities are too many to mention, but i daresay mastercaster would be among those who’d benefit the most from it—no more need for sawing, gluing, modifying several minis. you just go ahead and sculpt one in zbrush and have it either printed or cast.

a common misconception is that you don’t need sculpting knowledge or a profound understanding of anatomy to use zbrush—the opposite is true: the program is one of the industry standards for a reason, but to really get the most out of it, you must know your sculpting basics, that’s independent of medium.

the poor preview images are more likely based on either an insufficient handling/knowledge of zbrush, or time constraints and thus just quick and dirty renders.

given this information, i have to say the execution in zbrush by whoever it is, is bad, indeed. workflow could be so much easier, control over sculpting is so much more complete, but the minis now really show how lacking they are, particularly when i compare them with other current sculptors and companies.

just some quick points from me on the matter.

Last edited by cameosis (Mon, Aug20 2018 8:57pm)


Esse quam videri. (Marcus Tullius Cicero)

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#330 Tue, Aug21 2018 1:14am

Theobald
Wisest of Ents
From: the Osning in Germany
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 5565
Website

Re: Mithril and the Fellowships Chronology

Thank you, Master Cameosis, for providing information about that MZ-sculpting process.
I did not criticize that sculpting tool at all (though until now I really didn't know how it really works - by the by, I would never criticisze anything I don't know) - I just had the impression that the pics of the new MZ-figures do not reveil the figures you receive after you bought them. So you called them just a bad choice of the rendering process. That's what I wanted to say. Alright, sorry that I called it "screenshots" in my comment. I am aware of how to use different sources of light together within that tool. A basic tool if you sculpt that way, because a strong lamp at your desk doesn't help much.
But I'm afraid that there, so far, is no option in the MZ-programmes for "Mithril-grey-priming" to use and finish the print according to achieve an acceptable photograph of the ----> real, assembled and primed figure"<- - -
But I see, Master Cameosis, that you seem to share some part of my opinion ... thanks for that, indeed ...

Alas, ... you all are right ... I'm just a little bit too old-fashioned with my

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#331 Tue, Aug21 2018 2:20am

Theobald
Wisest of Ents
From: the Osning in Germany
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 5565
Website

Re: Mithril and the Fellowships Chronology

Master Mornedhel, I'm sorry not having answered here in the correct order. - Sorry.
I'm not sure if you got me wrong here with my comments.

First of all I did never criticize Chris' abilities in sculpting excellent figures. !!!!!!!

I had some of the thoughts you mentioned myself from time to time. - About age that is, of course.

No, please read more carefully that my complaints or criticism is simply based on the way and lack of "strategy" of the PA-Mithril company.

The image you chose, Mornedhel, is very interesting and just proves that resin-castings can top "old" hand-crafted metal castings in many ways. - Chris also once chose resin to have a larger figure being produced for some Dwarf-slayer in the gone project "Phaeton Design". All his vignettes of the "Teutoburger Wald" series, once provided by Jim Corless by "Timemachine" were resin-castings as for all those amazing details.

Yes, Mithril is now far behind other companies you said, Mornedhel. And I'm afraid you're right.

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#332 Tue, Aug21 2018 4:20pm

mindx2
Collector
From: United States
Registered: Mon, Aug22 2016
Posts: 168

Re: Mithril and the Fellowships Chronology

Reading these posts from the last few days is a bit of a bummer. Considering I "got back into" collecting Mithril figures two years ago right around when this change over began. I still feel the figures are "Mithril" enough that they don't necessarily clash with everything that has come before. However, after reading some of your post, such as esteemed Master Caster, I now notice the differences where I did not before. Not having certain characters look the same (ex. Galadriel) or be the same size is disappointing but the biggest is the primer. I always associated the Mithril line with the "Mithril grey" look. I truly hope we are not seeing the end coming but there seems to be so few of us left. It may be the end of an era. It just seems like a few tweaks are all that are needed to bring this line back to prominence. I still have the utmost respect and admiration for Chris Tubb as his vision of Middle-earth will always be what I see along with the other greats Alan Lee, John Howe and Ted Nasmith. They brought Tolkien's world alive in ways I will always cherish.

I will also cherish the contact I have established with so many here and your most generous help and kindness. Now I think I need to head over the The Pony and order a stiff drought of ale!!

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#333 Tue, Aug21 2018 4:31pm

Barliman
The famous Innkeeper
From: Bree
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 4249

Re: Mithril and the Fellowships Chronology

Indeed you do! Don't give up on Mithril - too many people already have. As you say, it needs oinly a few tweaks to get back on course. What worries me is whether there's sufficient enthusiasm at Mithril to introduce those tweaks. The company's reluctance to pay any attention  to our comments and issue some new figures - 'M' ranges in particular - is the prime problem. Less product will lead (has led) to less interest, and that's a downward spiral that can only lead to oblivion.


"A worthy man, but his memory is like a lumber-room: thing wanted always buried."

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#334 Tue, Aug21 2018 11:36pm

cameosis
Master of Languages
Registered: Tue, Jan25 2011
Posts: 584

Re: Mithril and the Fellowships Chronology

Theobald wrote:

Thank you, Master Cameosis, for providing information about that MZ-sculpting process.
I did not criticize that sculpting tool at all (though until now I really didn't know how it really works - by the by, I would never criticisze anything I don't know) - I just had the impression that the pics of the new MZ-figures do not reveil the figures you receive after you bought them. So you called them just a bad choice of the rendering process. That's what I wanted to say. Alright, sorry that I called it "screenshots" in my comment. I am aware of how to use different sources of light together within that tool. A basic tool if you sculpt that way, because a strong lamp at your desk doesn't help much.
But I'm afraid that there, so far, is no option in the MZ-programmes for "Mithril-grey-priming" to use and finish the print according to achieve an acceptable photograph of the ----> real, assembled and primed figure"<- - -
But I see, Master Cameosis, that you seem to share some part of my opinion ... thanks for that, indeed ...

Alas, ... you all are right ... I'm just a little bit too old-fashioned with my

no need to apologize for anything at all, my friend—especially not to me, i just read up on the program a few years ago, that’s all. i absolutely share your opinion about the mz figures: posting such a render alone makes sense if you present a digital file or product, but here we have cast figures, so a real photograph is of paramount importance.

i just had a friend over at my place last weekend, and we photographed two thirds of my miniatures collection, including nearly all of mithril. he brought along his equipment, a nikon d3 and two flashes, set everything up and connected it to his laptop and off we went ... meaning, shooting good product pictures is a matter of seconds if you prepare it correctly. we made some 1,000 pics in 8 hours, including breaks.

i haven’t followed the discussion on the shift in company policy or the looming demise of the mithril subdivision, but it’s not unexpected to me. presentation, product line, everything just show a lack of interest in the (admittedly small -- but very committed) customer base and their interests and preferences.


Esse quam videri. (Marcus Tullius Cicero)

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#335 Wed, Aug22 2018 12:59am

Theobald
Wisest of Ents
From: the Osning in Germany
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 5565
Website

Re: Mithril and the Fellowships Chronology

thanks to all for answering to my last entries their way ... they all helped me a lot ... though the reactions and answers do not grant me a good night ... alas
... what I have learned is that a tree sometimes needs an excellent Troll lawyer( who are rare) who is capable to judge upon some serious matters ...
Master Cameosis, I am delighted to feel someone sharing my thoughts that well.

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#336 Thu, Aug23 2018 11:00am

Milo
The Attic Warden
From: Toulouse, France
Registered: Tue, Mar30 2010
Posts: 4206

Re: Mithril and the Fellowships Chronology

I received last 2 new releases.
Both are in 1 piece and look really nice to me. Il will try to provide pics once back Home.


Milo Gamgee-Took of Bywater
________________________
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
J.R.R.Tolkien

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#337 Thu, Aug23 2018 3:39pm

hsf62
Master Caster
From: Australia Germany
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 2811

Re: Mithril and the Fellowships Chronology

A lot of thoughts and information.....
I like this!
Master cameosis, I don't know if it is wise to tell a "woodworm" you only need a programm like zbrush to create a new figure without cutting a old one into bits. I'm more like the Ent... old-fashioned re computer. I don't know if I could handle that programm and I guess its a bit to expensive to buy one just to realise mate you are to old-fashioned to use it! lollol


Where there is a will there is a way, just as there are no problems, only solutions! Guess it depends on ones own perspective of the matter at that time big_smile

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#338 Thu, Aug23 2018 4:40pm

Barliman
The famous Innkeeper
From: Bree
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 4249

Re: Mithril and the Fellowships Chronology

I'm with you, Master Holger - old-fashioned and computerally (is that a word?) incompetent. So long as the people who need to know can improve the quality of the Mithril technique, that's all I want. I'm sure that the designs will improve with experience. At the moment there's much room for improvement, starting with eliminating all these square angles that have become too frequent for my tastes. The wonderful flow of Chris' designs have been horribly compromised by the new process. For me, Mithril figures have dropped from an overall score of 10/10 to an average of, say, 6/10 to 7/10. That's still prety good by most figures designers' standards, but why accept compromise when perfection is available?


"A worthy man, but his memory is like a lumber-room: thing wanted always buried."

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#339 Sat, Aug25 2018 3:41pm

hsf62
Master Caster
From: Australia Germany
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 2811

Re: Mithril and the Fellowships Chronology

Barliman wrote:

I'm with you, Master Holger - old-fashioned and computerally (is that a word?) incompetent. So long as the people who need to know can improve the quality of the Mithril technique, that's all I want. I'm sure that the designs will improve with experience. At the moment there's much room for improvement, starting with eliminating all these square angles that have become too frequent for my tastes. The wonderful flow of Chris' designs have been horribly compromised by the new process. For me, Mithril figures have dropped from an overall score of 10/10 to an average of, say, 6/10 to 7/10. That's still prety good by most figures designers' standards, but why accept compromise when perfection is available?

Master Barliman you speek out of my heard!cool


Where there is a will there is a way, just as there are no problems, only solutions! Guess it depends on ones own perspective of the matter at that time big_smile

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#340 Thu, Sep20 2018 12:34pm

Maenas
Traveller
From: Barcelona, Spain
Registered: Thu, Mar6 2008
Posts: 424

Re: Mithril and the Fellowships Chronology

To put it simply, I do not like MZ series at all.

Scale is weird, they are somewhat deformed to an angle, and some parts have strange shapes. Higher price lower quality, no more miniatures I have bought...

Other companies do marvels at this very same scale WITH PRINTED masters, just check Corvus Belli or Knight models. Is this fact what hurts me more mithril seems to have failed checking what other companies achieve. Meanwhile GW has relaunched their range of LOTR armies with EXCELLENT casts and even their price is better than Mithril's.

I really would hire Cris and have him sculpt by hand and cast his miniatures on the facilities provided by the companies above and see what happens.


---
Mae govannen mellon nín.

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#341 Thu, Sep20 2018 4:41pm

hsf62
Master Caster
From: Australia Germany
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 2811

Re: Mithril and the Fellowships Chronology

He can do the Masters and I can do the rest to save time! wink


Where there is a will there is a way, just as there are no problems, only solutions! Guess it depends on ones own perspective of the matter at that time big_smile

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#342 Fri, Sep21 2018 3:20pm

Theobald
Wisest of Ents
From: the Osning in Germany
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 5565
Website

Re: Mithril and the Fellowships Chronology

I re-read all the last pages of this thread today and now will not comment on this matter any more, as I before have just politely tried to point out my thoughts here in public and found a lot of interesting response. Thank you for that, gentlemen. But after I now had to learn that obviously "Mithril" is not about to consider any well-meant positive criticism for at least trying to slightly change just a little bit of the last desastrous development (indeed I just had a very close look at the "new website") I decided not to pester you, being present here on MMP, any more with my anger, as you are the wrong addressees. And obviously there's no-one you can directly contact in the company, as it once was. And for me that's it.

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#343 Fri, Sep21 2018 6:36pm

hsf62
Master Caster
From: Australia Germany
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 2811

Re: Mithril and the Fellowships Chronology

Very sad to hear that Wisest of Ents!sad


Where there is a will there is a way, just as there are no problems, only solutions! Guess it depends on ones own perspective of the matter at that time big_smile

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#344 Fri, Sep21 2018 11:29pm

mindx2
Collector
From: United States
Registered: Mon, Aug22 2016
Posts: 168

Re: Mithril and the Fellowships Chronology

Theobald wrote:

But after I now had to learn that obviously "Mithril" is not about to consider any well-meant positive criticism for at least trying to slightly change just a little bit of the last desastrous development (indeed I just had a very close look at the "new website") I decided not to pester you, being present here on MMP, any more with my anger, as you are the wrong addressees.

May I ask what it was that you learned that shows Mithril will not consider any criticism?

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#345 Wed, Sep26 2018 7:30pm

Barliman
The famous Innkeeper
From: Bree
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 4249

Re: Mithril and the Fellowships Chronology

This does not make happy reading, on my return!


"A worthy man, but his memory is like a lumber-room: thing wanted always buried."

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#346 Wed, Sep26 2018 9:08pm

hsf62
Master Caster
From: Australia Germany
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 2811

Re: Mithril and the Fellowships Chronology

What Master Barliman?  What dont u like?


Where there is a will there is a way, just as there are no problems, only solutions! Guess it depends on ones own perspective of the matter at that time big_smile

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#347 Wed, Sep26 2018 9:27pm

Barliman
The famous Innkeeper
From: Bree
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 4249

Re: Mithril and the Fellowships Chronology

Master Theobald's comments of course, Master H.


"A worthy man, but his memory is like a lumber-room: thing wanted always buried."

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#348 Wed, Sep26 2018 10:28pm

hsf62
Master Caster
From: Australia Germany
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 2811

Re: Mithril and the Fellowships Chronology

Ok, first, welcome back Master Barliman. I hope you had a good time!
Oh and sorry, no it didn't make me happy either reading this comment of the Ent ...


Where there is a will there is a way, just as there are no problems, only solutions! Guess it depends on ones own perspective of the matter at that time big_smile

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#349 Sat, Sep29 2018 11:17am

Thingol
Brave Sam the gardener
From: Republic of Croatia
Registered: Tue, Jul28 2009
Posts: 3484
Website

Re: Mithril and the Fellowships Chronology

Houm... I did not been it the pony for a while but I see I did not miss anything... Barliman was on vacation with mrs. B. and Nob's probably slept in the attic... now it right time to drink something... Please Master innkeeper can I order one beer and my second breakfast....


.... Farewell to Middle-earth at last. I see the Star above my mast!

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#350 Sat, Sep29 2018 1:04pm

Barliman
The famous Innkeeper
From: Bree
Registered: Tue, Jan29 2008
Posts: 4249

Re: Mithril and the Fellowships Chronology

Coming up. Actually, that can also be said of some of my worst ale after its's been drunk.


"A worthy man, but his memory is like a lumber-room: thing wanted always buried."

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